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Thread: RR/RC for Broken Crescent - RELEASED

  1. #41

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Ok, I went over the units you mentioned. Some of the armours are hard to identify. Maybe 3.0 will have more detailed units. Anyway, this is what I've come up regarding your suggestions:

    Raja's Guard was done.

    The Mongols were finished. You must have seen the Mongol units that are not in the game.



    Abna Heavy Spearmen and Abna Infantry are wearing light lamellar on light mail(counted as robes?). - I can't see any light mail, only robes on top of their armour. I will need someone knowledgeable about this to confirm things one way or another.

    Faris Cavalry and Faris Dismounted Archers are wearing light lamellar and a gambeson. - I agree.

    Faris Lancers and Faris Heavy Infantry are wearing lamellar on partial light mail. - I sort of agree. I'm having a hard time telling what they're wearing.

    Agulani Horsemen, Azeri Swordsmen, and Azeri Spearmen are wearing lamellar on partial light mail. - I will change these.

    Jagirdar Lancers and Dismounted Jagirdar Swordsmen are wearing light lamellar on light mail. - Yup.

    Jagirdar Horse Archers and Qiqaniyya Bowmen are wearing light lamellar on partial light mail. - Ok.

    Caucasian Mountaineer Axemen are wearing leather. - I'll change them.

    Nakharar Bodyguard, Nakharar Knights, and Dismounted Nakharar Knights are wearing heavy lamellar/scale on heavy? mail, and a gambeson. - How about partial heavy mail + light scale? I've decided to allow a maximum of lamellar/scale on top of mail, like I've done for the cataphracts. Heavy lamellar/scale on top of heavy mail would be too cumbersome.

    Kartlian spearmen are wearing partial light mail. - Looks more like leather lamellar to me.

    Tadzreuli Swordsmen are wearing heavy mail under leather lamellar. - Partial heavy mail + leather lamellar.

    Eristavi Cavalry are wearing heavy mail under leather lamellar. - Partial heavy mail + leather lamellar.

    Royal Monaspa Guard, Monaspa Lancers and Horse Archers (and dismounted monaspa lancers and archers) are wearing scale (probably heavy scale?) on top of mail. - Partial heavy mail + scale.

    Latin Longbowmen are wearing light mail. - Check.

    Militia of the Kingdom are wearing light brigandine? - Looks more like leather to me. I doubt militia would have access to brigandine, especially this early on.

    Militia of the Kingdom and Christian Crossbowmen are Mediterranean not Anatolian. - I don't understand what you mean.

    Late Crusaders mounted and dismounted (Knights of St John, Templar Knights, and Teutonic Knights) are wearing coat of plates. - Changed.

    Heroes of the Crusade are wearing coat of plates. - Changed.

    Jund Spearmen of the Ayyubid are wearing light mail not leather. - Got it.

    Syrian Noblemen are wearing light mail under a gambeson. They should also have a different secondary (A spear is their secondary weapon for some reason right now. - Partial light mail + leather lamellar? Apparently, spears were used for fighting on horseback. That's what I was told in the BC forum when I enquired about it.

    Daylami Infantry are wearing light mail not leather. - Some of them could be said to be wearing mail, but a lot more are wearing leather.

    Slavic Spearmen are wearing light mail. - I'll change these and the swordsmen from gambeson to partial light mail.

    Slavic Cavalry are wearing light mail. - Just like the dismounted versions.

    Nomad Tribal Cavalry, Nomad Lancers and aor_steppe tier 3, Nomad Lancers are wearing leather lamellar. - The Lancers yes. The horsearchers are just wearing leather. I will also change the Dismounted Nomad Lancers to leather lamellar.

    Kypchak Khan's Cavalry are wearing lamellar on partial light mail. - Ok.

    Kypchak Khan's Lancers are wearing heavy lamellar on partial heavy? mail. - Partial heavy mail + lamellar.

    Bharat Armoured Spearmen are wearing partial light mail. - It sort of looks like it, but I want to get the opinion of someone who knows about these guys (preferably one of the researchers of BC, or the guy who made the model).

    Indian Swordsmen are wearing partial light mail. - Will do.

    Armenian Cavalry Auxilia are wearing partial light mail. - Yup.

    Archer Auxillia are wearing light mail. - Changed.

    Rus Mercenaries are wearing light mail. - Partial light mail, like the rest of the slavic units.

    Bado Camel Archers are wearing light bringandine. - I'll change them.

    aor_armenia tier 3, Vishap Warriors are wearing light mail. - Ok.

    aor_trasc tier 2, Azat Archers are wearing partial light mail. - I'll change.

    aor_trasc tier 3, Shubosani Molashqre are wearing leather lamellar. - Agreed.

    aor trans tier 4, Aznauri Nobles are wearing lamellar on light mail. - Partial light mail + light lamellar.

    Kurdish Peshmerga are wearing light lamellar. - Ok.

    Khurasani Nobles are wearing light lamellar on light mail. - True.

    Aznauri Lancers are wearing light mail under leather lamellar. - Looked like leather lamellar. I hope to get an expert opinion on this as well.

    Hospitaller Mounted Brother-Sergeants are wearing light mail. - Changed.



    I've reexamined some other units, and I'm having doubts about some of them. What do you think of:

    Metsikhovne Spearmen and Archers - Light mail or partial light mail?

    Tawashi - Lamellar or heavy lamellar?

    Turkmen Askari Horse Archers - What armour? I got them at light lamellar right now.

    Aspet Cavalry - Heavy mail + ____ ? Light mail + ____ ?

    Dismounted Aspet Lancers - Light mail + light lamellar.

    Samnapah Spearmen - Light mail.

    Azat Swordsmen - Partial heavy mail instead of heavy mail.

    Mounted & Dismounted Didebuls - Partial light mail.



    I've started changing the costs of units, but I want to finalize the armours before I continue, since cost is dependent on armour for some units.

  2. #42
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    The culture heat bonus for militia of the kingdom and christian crossbowmen is Anatolian and not Mediterranean. Maybe I'm wrong on that one.

    Turkmen Askari Horse Archers- I'd say they're wearing lamellar.

    Tawashi - Lamellar

    Aspet Cavalry - Heavy mail + a gambeson.

    Metsikhovne Spearmen -light mail, and Archers- partial light mail.

    Nakharar Bodyguard, Nakharar Knights, and Dismounted Nakharar Knights -partial heavy mail and scale, since heavy scale would be too much.




    I'd say I agree with everything else. Guess I was wrong about the Mongols. Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to your next release.


  3. #43

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Yeah, it should be Mediterranean, but that would also give 0, so there is no difference. I'll change it anyway for accuracy's sake. I forget why I made them Anatolian... although Anatolia should have a Mediterranean climate, at least in the southern parts.

    What's left to do:

    1) Finish the armour changes and determine the new stats.
    2) Finish the costs.
    3) Formations.
    4) Ground bonuses.
    5) Put in new models with secondary weapons and new Royal Kataphraktoi models.

    I'll leave recruit_priority_offsets for next time, so we can get a chance to see if the AI recruits diversified armies with enough good units.

  4. #44

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    I've finished adjusting the stats for those units and some others, and corrected some mistakes. I'm going to review all the heavy units that you haven't brought up, since now they look much weaker than the revised ones. Would you mind having a look as well so we can compare notes?

    I put in the new models, as well, with stats to match, and I've tinkered with the EDB some more to improve the feudal system.

    Should some of the KOJ knights have Coat Of Plates instead of Heavy Mail? Those guys are gonna have only 8 armour compared to 13 or more for the heavies of nearby factions. I remember hearing that knights wore felt overcoats to protect them from Saracen arrows.
    Last edited by k/t; February 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM.

  5. #45
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    First the Knights of Outremer.They are a late unit and the description lists them as the great nobles of the realm, and as barons. I would dare say they are the counterpart of "Chivalric Knights," just in the latter half of the 13th century before the spread of partial plate. they are wearing a surcoat which I would assume to be the armored surcoat (ie coat of plates).

    By the description of Knights of Jerusalem it would appear that the mounted unit is made up of the cream of the crop (exceptional) and described as "knights whose weight is nearing that of Khwarezm or the Byzantines" so I would say they are supposed to be wearing coat of plates. However the "Dismounted Knights of Jerusalem" infantry unit is described as a "Jerusalem Guard" made of lesser knights and others in their class (elite), not of the same troops in the Knights of Jerusalem. It goes on to say "They are without peer west of the Fertile Crescent... highly disciplined and motivated spearmen, well suited to crucial parts of the battle line or ramparts." So I think the heavy mail for them is correct for them but coat of plates for the cavalry unit.
    Last edited by Judeman266; February 17, 2013 at 10:14 PM.


  6. #46

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Yeah, those are some of the contradictions I've struggled with.

    These are newly-revised units (p = partial, h = heavy, first l = light if two letters, second l = lamellar, l by itself = lamellar, m = mail, le = leather, s = scale, g = gambeson)

    Karakalpak Nobles - phm + ll

    Qapukulu - hm + ll

    Sipahi Lancers - phm + ll

    Sipahi Heavy HA - lm + ll

    Kavallarioi - inner gambeson 1 + phm 6 + l 7 + vambraces & greaves 1

    Stratiotai - inner gambeson + phm

    Dismounted Tawashi - plm + l

    Dismounted Askaris - plm + le l

    Sultan's Guard (egypt) - phm + l

    Kurdish Lancers - phm + l (same soldier as BG)

    Tawashi Cavalry - phm + l

    Askari Cavalry - plm + le l

    Spatharioi - extra thick inner gambeson +2 armour + hm + l

    Imam's Guard - hm + g

    Arabian Noble Lancers - hm + g (same soldier)

    Turkman Heavy Bowmen - l

    Dismounted Turkman Askaris - l

    Sultan's Guard (seljuqs) - hm + l (same soldier as the top ghulam horsearchers, Palace something)

    Should the Daylami Infantry have leather lamellar and Heavy Daylami Infantry lamellar instead of leather and light lamellar, respectively? They seem ok now, but maybe we'll get an expert opinion.

    I took the outer gambeson off the Khwarezmian cataphracts, since they're not actually wearing one.

    Emir's Guard, Elite Ghulam Emir's Guard, Dismounted Emir's Guard (ghorids) - hm + l


    I only have a few more factions to go through.

  7. #47
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    You are on the spot with most of these

    Daylami Infantry - le l

    Heavy Daylami Infantry - plm + ll


    A few additions:

    Khurasani Heavy Cavalry - phm + l

    Ghaznavid Ghulams and Ghulam Infantry - phm + le l + vambraces

    Sistani Heavy Spearmen - plm + ll

    Khurasani Heavy Spearmen phm + l


    About the Mongols:

    The Noble Heavy Lancers are supposed to be the Khan's Guard (Keshik) but the Mongol Heavy Lancers (Turhagut) is not in game. I see you gave the Noble Heavy Lancers the stats of the Turhagut. Would consider adding the Mongol Heavy Lancers back in or is it too much work?
    Last edited by Judeman266; February 19, 2013 at 09:45 AM.


  8. #48

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    The Khan's Guard from M2? I'm planning to review the Mongol stats as well, so I'll try to bump up the Noble Heavy Lancers and if possible add a light melee cavalry unit. I would have to import it from somewhere, though. Maybe from SS. Hoschita Lancers or something.

  9. #49

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Ahdath Archers - le

    Soomro Kshatriya Warriors and Horsemen appear to be wearing a mix of light mail and light lamellar/scale. Some wear one, some wear the other.

    Paramara Avarudha Bharatta - plm + s

    Rajput Bharata Asiheti - g, but I gave 3 armour because some people in the unit wear light scale

    Paramara Raja Asvaka - plm + s - they're the mounted version of Paramara Avarudha Bharatta

    Chauhamana Rajput Asvaka - g +1 for some light scale

    Changed the weapon of Ghandara Axemen to 2h axe and gave +1 attack, +15 attack delay, -1 defense for heavy weapon.

    Same with Tirpan Azaps.

    I can't figure out what the Kshatriya Nobles and Warriors are wearing. lm + l? It's weird. Also, the cavalry version is Feudal and the infantry is Early Professional. I'm thinking of moving the cavalry to Early Professional too. But then I think for 10 seconds and start wanting to move the infantry to Feudal. Argh. I'll have to do some research.

    Keshik BG - lm + l + 1 for silk vest to protect against arrows

    Noble Heavy Lancers - lm + l + 1 for silk vest

    Dismounted Guardsmen - lm + l + 1 for silk vest

    Heavy Qarachu, foot and rider - l + 1 for silk vest

    I want to add a light melee cavalry unit to the Mongols, then bump up the heavy lancers to Elite. The light unit will be Superior, with a mace as secondary weapon. I'll have to get permission from Rusichi, though, since I'm pretty sure that's where SS's Mongols came from.

  10. #50
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Can't really tell what the Kshatriya Nobles are wearing either.

    Everything else looks good though.


  11. #51
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Hey k/t would you consider implementing the era system so that units would appear in the custom battle menu as factional units (early, high, late) and then when you click "all" it would go to factional and aor units?


  12. #52

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    So when you click Early, High or Late you can recruit only your factional troops but when you click All you'd be able to recruit the AOR units as well? Hmm...the factional troops should be Early, then, and the AOR High...that way you'd get both when you click All. I wasn't planning on it, since Custom Battles don't interest me other than as a testing ground. I removed "no_custom" from the units that had it to make stat assignation easier. What would be the point of the multi-era system, though? You want to play Custom Battles only with each faction's unique units? After all the EDU and EDB trawling I've done, I remember what they all are.

    I'm not getting an answer in the main forum, so can you tell me if you can build a port in Saqsin? I'm trying to determine if the problem is with the game or just my files.

    Also, can you use the Italian Mercenary Crossbowmen in a Custom Battle? My game crashes every time I try to.
    Last edited by k/t; February 22, 2013 at 02:22 AM.

  13. #53
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    You can't build a port in Sasqin, and Italian Merc Crossbowmen work in my game.

    Another unit you might have missed

    Ottoman Heavy Infantry - phm + ll


  14. #54

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    I'll check it. I will also change Saracen Swordsmen to hm + ll.

    Crap...looks like it's Geomod time for me.

    Can you please post the bmdb entry of your Italian Mercenary Crossbowmen and the meshes associated with it? I don't understand why it doesn't work for me.

    I've done the prices of everything up to ;;;;;;;;;; WESTERN FOOT MERCENARIES ;;;;;;;;;; . I should finish tomorrow, at which point I'll just have to add a light melee cavalry unit for the Mongols and the port of Saqsin. I guess I'll release the files before I do that, since it might take a while. That way people can try them out and come up with suggestions. Then I will also check the animations in bmdb. PB uploaded some in the RR/RC work-pack, and I wonder if I can switch some of them around.

    And I also have to fix the Pelekyphoroi and Varangians.

  15. #55
    Judeman266's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    I think this is what you need. If not let me know.

    19
    1 4
    53 unit_models/_Units/levy/levy_md_crossbowmen_lod0.mesh 121
    53 unit_models/_Units/levy/levy_md_crossbowmen_lod1.mesh 900
    53 unit_models/_Units/levy/levy_md_crossbowmen_lod2.mesh 2500
    53 unit_models/_Units/levy/levy_md_crossbowmen_lod3.mesh 6400
    24

    levy.rar


  16. #56

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    The prices are all done. I thought it would never end.

    The Saracen Swordsmen and Arab Swordsmen are now hm + ll. Ottoman Heavy Infantry is now phm + ll.

    I changed the animations of the Pelekyphoroi and Varangians and now they're proper two-handed axemen, but their model needs adjusting.

    Thanks, but I wanted the entire bmdb entry. I put in your meshes and the game still crashed. I changed their animations with those of the Latin Crossbowmen and it worked. Would you mind posting the whole entry? I'm wondering if I should reinstall.

    In any case, I'll upload the EDU and the new bmdb. Argh, I also have to upload the meshes that Jedi Knight made.

    The EDU and the bmdb correspond to the new meshes, so you have to put them in for everything to work. You don't need to remove or replace anything. Their names are just slightly different (they have a 1 at the end), and I modified the bmdb accordingly so it points to the new files.

    Very strange...I've put in the animations of Levantine Crossbowmen for the Italian Mercenaries and the game worked fine. Why did they have a test_shield animation if they don't have a shield?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by k/t; February 24, 2013 at 08:06 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Thanks for this man, I know it was a lot of work putting this all together, just wanted to let you know that it is much appreciated. If its not too much extra you should thik about also uploading a edb with the missing units added: kypchak medium lancers, kypchack elite horse archers, kypchak heavy lancers, mounted kara archers. There's a edb file floating around somewhere in the submods forum with the unit already added with their respective hidden resources. Then I think your "package" will be complete. Thanks again.

  18. #58

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    I have added them in my EDB, however, I have overhauled it greatly, and it will not be compatible with your game. I uploaded an earlier version of my EDB in another thread. See if it works for you, as it has the missing Kypchak units added. Here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Nomad-Lancers

    It's in the last post.

    There might be some units still missing, however. Some of the mercenaries were mislabeled or confused with similar AOR units and they don't appear. I fixed all of that in my files, but I don't know if they are fixed in that particular version of the EDB. I went through the EDU unit by unit and I made sure they are all included.

    "I know it was a lot of work putting this all together"

    You have no idea. And the amount of work I still have to do is hair-raising, especially fiddling with the animations in the bmdb. But your support is good for morale. I was starting to feel discouraged, since only one person dropped by and I have to learn to use Geomod now as well as master bmdb modifications. And this forum change made me lose a lot of interest in coming here, haha. The old forum was like a nicely appointed living room with soft lighting and thick carpets and plush couches and wooden accents, and the new one is like a hospital, sterile and harsh, lit by horrible fluorescent bulbs.

    Anyway, I'm feeling better now that the colour changed and you dropped by and I got to vent.

    I removed castles altogether, so the submod has only cities. I intend to add more stone forts in the future, and use the Teutonic forts for the battle map. I made a ton of gameplay tweaks and adjustments in order to increase realism, which brings me to:

    If you want, I can upload the files I have right now, as the game works fine and I can start a new campaign, but I am almost certain I wrote some of the hidden_resources wrong. The good news is that all required changes will involve the EDB, and thus they will be save-compatible, which means that as you report problems, I will fix them and post a new EDB for you to continue your campaign with. If you people try a campaign or two, you'll be helping me uncover the problems faster, as well as suggesting balance improvements.

    So, anyone up for play-testing?

  19. #59

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    Yeah the new forum situation might take a while to get used to, the "test" and "y2skin" skins are little better though. I'm up for some play testing and would definitely like to try those files out, but unfortunately I have a problem. I've been trying for a week to get get a BC mod up and running. I can successfully install at main mod BC 2.321 with the hotfix, it work and loads and no errors, great. Then I can put the entries in for the missing kychack units and the game starts fine no crash. I then proceed to try to implement A-qd's edu and bmdb with the new textures then, fail. the game starts and then immediate ctd. It seems that any time I alter the edu OR bmdb I get the same massive error log. Now I'm no great wizard at modding or anything but ive learned a few tricks here and there and I've made these changes before no problem but I had deleted my old install. Then today I saw this the long awaited RR\RC for BC I thought, sweet then I saw that you included A-qd's fixes too. I thought awesome now I can just install this and won't have to worry about screwing up again. So i did a fresh BC install then your files on top, then, yes same fail and same error log. Dude, Its really weird. now im sure that somethings screwed upon my end but I don't know what it is. I got other mods installed they all work. check out my log if you have a minute, maybe you'll have an idea. id be very greatful indeed.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  20. #60

    Default Re: RR/RC for Broken Crescent

    I used Jedi Knight's altered units.


    03:18:17.316 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Broken_Crescent_kingdoms/data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 370, column 24
    stat_pri statistic refers to non-existant projectile type 'exceptional_mounted_missile_composite_arrow'
    03:18:17.316 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Broken_Crescent_kingdoms/data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 370, column 24
    failed to read statistic for unit type 'bodyguard georgia'
    03:18:17.316 [data.invalid] [error] DATABASE_TABLE error found : error reading record from file mods/Broken_Crescent_kingdoms/data/export_descr_unit.txt.

    You didn't put in the descr_projectile file I uploaded.
    Last edited by k/t; February 25, 2013 at 02:33 AM.

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