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Thread: Something that bothers me deeply...

  1. #1

    Default Something that bothers me deeply...

    James Russell explains. “We’re trying to reduce the management you’ve got to do [with] assembling armies, and that kind of thing.”
    source: http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/tota...er-and-mods/2/

    Now let's see. Something that has bothered me like little else in my recent gaming career is the dumbing down of games. Games that had much potential in their first installement got "streamlined" in the second installment and outright made for pet monkies to play in their eventual third installment.

    A great example is that of Mass Effect from Bioware where you had many different controls on your keyboard for your different actions, it got simplified in Mass Effect 2 and with Mass Effect 3, all your actions were reduced to ...you guessed it - [SPACEBAR]. The quote here by James Russell gives me a hint that this is the way that Rome II will go from its predecessors. The micromanagement of everything is what (to me) drew me into the series. The fact that you could get different traits for your generals/family members in Rome Total War or Medieval II depending on how they were doing on the campaign map or battle map.

    Fantastic mods such as Europa Barbarorum, RTR, Roma Surrectum, Stainless Steel and Bellum Crucis expanded on this with deeper and more complex traits, further adding to the complexity of the original game by expanding that experience for me. My problem is that I've seen these kinds of comments from developers before, and they have unequivocally been foreshadowing a dumbing down of game mechanics.

    I did not dislike Empire and Napoleon TW, because I like especially the Empire TW era of history - but I downright hated the campaign map changes and the dumbing down of character-progression of the generals. Complexity is what adds difficulty to a game, that is what makes the games of Paradox Interactive such as Crusader Kings 2 into successful games. Complex and difficult games are hard to master, but when you learn to master it - you feel like a god and that sense of reward is well worth the effort. One of the reasons that Rome and Medieval II are still very popular strategy games and remembered fondly by players all over the world is their modding friendliness, difficulty and the complexity that those mods added.

    I don't know, I was naturally excited about the Rome 2 announcement, and from the few screenshots, the graphics impress, and I'm certain that the combat will impress too. But I am skeptical as to wether or not this will turn out the way fans hope. Fans were fairly disappointed with the outcome of Empire, Shogun 2 was good, but was a far cry for many old Shogun fans' dreams of what Shogun 2 should have been.

    The Creative Assembly have a mountain of expectations to climb for Rome II: Total War, and if they fail - I fear that the reprecussions of their fanbase may remind of that of Mass (D)Effect 3's failure as a game. And that would be a shame.

    My two cents,
    Aru
    A concerned Medieval II modder and Med2 and RomeTW rabid fan


  2. #2
    Copperknickers II's Avatar quaeri, si sapis
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    I played Empire once, and since then I have not bought another Total War game post-Med2. I did play Shogun 2 which was a lot better than I thought it would be, but still, if they keep all the stupid arcady elements like jet-trails on the arrows then I will not buy it.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

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  3. #3
    Sharpe's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Perhaps more micromanagement could be added for higher difficulty levels.
    Last edited by Sharpe; April 30, 2013 at 10:41 PM.

  4. #4
    Orko's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    They've said they've been trying to "reduce micromanagement" since ETW and it never ended well. Don't they realize there's not micromanagement in TW games anymore? Not since ETW at least. If they want a good perspective on what micromanaging actually is, they should go play some Paradox games.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Perhaps more micromanagement could be added for higher difficulty levels. I personally would like to see the series take a step closer towards the Paradox style of nation management.
    That's the thing, mods like EB, RTR and Roma Surrectum 2 brought Rome TW closer to gameplay of Paradox games, which is something I loved. RTW became a nice mix then of a Paradox game, the original RTW and Civilization style games, with battle maps to actually do battle on when you felt like it. This is why I to this day still enjoy a good mod like EB or RTR or RS2


  6. #6
    Sharpe's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    I have been playing the hell out of RS2 recently. It has set the bar high for RTW2 and they should take heed of the modders work.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tycI...feature=relmfu

    About 1:30

    He talks about reducing campaign management

  8. #8
    Sharpe's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    War itself is determined by man-power and resources, you cannot factor that out of a game based on the principle of Total War.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    I want MORE campaign management...

  10. #10

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    This will be soooo stupid managment makes the game.
    Management gives you a different aspect of the game besides battles and building in the original rome and medieval was fun

  11. #11

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
    I want MORE campaign management...
    Glad I'm not the only one


  12. #12

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    I want somthing feasible. It would be great of ca gave us options such as having arcade like management or real time.

    We really need more options for tw games.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by SamWarrior View Post
    I want somthing feasible. It would be great of ca gave us options such as having arcade like management or real time.

    We really need more options for tw games.
    The problem is that Bioware did exactly that for Mass Effect 3, they had "3" (yes in quotation marks because the actual RPG-style of the game was FILLED with autodialogues) different game options for 3 different playstyles, which was simply unnecessary.

    Developers work under strict budgets and time constraints, adding more variability like this would literally take away development time from the actual intended gamestyle...well..assuming a complex strategy game is intended.


  14. #14
    Dynamo11's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Copperknickers II View Post
    I played Empire once
    Well then you're the worst type of gamer, Empire always deserved a second chance post 1.5


  15. #15

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tycI...feature=relmfu

    watch this and see that this game will going to have Empire : Total War's province management system. Remember there were provinces in ETW like 'Paris'(all france in one province), 'Anatolia'(huge land, one province), 'Spain'(%85 of the Iberia) and those provinces were not giving the taste of playing... You can invade and capture all 'France', I mean 'Paris' with only 1 stack army in ETW because it is only one province. Too bad that Rome 2 will going to have the same stuff...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpe View Post
    Perhaps more micromanagement could be added for higher difficulty levels. I personally would like to see the series take a step closer towards the Paradox style of nation management.

    Hell..Yes.. I am so sick of the dumbing down of games, Mass Effect is a great example.

  17. #17
    Sir Winston Churchill's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    I've always hated that in Rome and Med II city buildings was a huge task and there were a plethora of different buildings to build with different effects, and then Empire came along and we've had this retarded "four buildings to a city" rule since. Sure, we have towns to build in regions, which is good, but it's not nearly as in-depth as it should be. Even towns should be a bit different.
    Last edited by Sir Winston Churchill; July 02, 2012 at 03:11 PM. Reason: edited to prevent misunderstandings.

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by John F. Kennedy View Post
    I've always hated that in Rome and Med II city buildings was a huge task and there were a plethora of different buildings to build with different effects.

    Then Empire came along and we've had this retarded "four buildings to a city" rule since. Sure, we have towns to build in regions, which is good, but it's not nearly as in-depth as it should be. Even towns should be a bit different.
    Well there was this thing called Automanagement, it wasn't ideal but it was fairly okay.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazx View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tycI...feature=relmfu

    watch this and see that this game will going to have Empire : Total War's province management system. Remember there were provinces in ETW like 'Paris'(all france in one province), 'Anatolia'(huge land, one province), 'Spain'(%85 of the Iberia) and those provinces were not giving the taste of playing... You can invade and capture all 'France', I mean 'Paris' with only 1 stack army in ETW because it is only one province. Too bad that Rome 2 will going to have the same stuff...
    He actually says that you will get big provinces made up of smaller regions that can be conquered individually, the PC Gamer article explains it better. So it sounds like you only deal with managing a large province that is really a collection of smaller regions.


  20. #20
    Sir Winston Churchill's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Something that bothers me deeply...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aruthiel View Post
    Well there was this thing called Automanagement, it wasn't ideal but it was fairly okay.
    No, I think you misunderstand. I didn't hate Rome and Med II's way of city management, in fact I loved it. I hated how we had it and then it changed over to the new way of things.

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