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Thread: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

  1. #1
    Latin Knight's Avatar Miles
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    Default Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    ITT, i'd like to propose and hear some suggestions to improve the game. For some reason, i can't post in the official Paradox forums (where it'd be the more logical place to create a thread like this). Nevertheless, if we can brainstorm some good ideas, perhaps someone would kindly link this thread to the official forums. This is NOT a thread for: "I thinks Pagans and Republics should be playable!". Here we'll talk about improvements to the vanilla + Sword of Islam game (i haven't played any mods, so don't know if any of this is already implemented in those).

    OK, for those who have played other Paradox games, specially Victoria II and EUIII, you'll see how many of these ideas i present here are inspired by the mechanics of those games. Also, you'll see a trend, that in my opinion is historically relevant: the transition between the Medieval Age to the Renaissance/Modern Era. Early gameplay in EUIII already conveys the remnant of Medieval warfare/culture transforming into the Modern one. In CKII, on the contrary, i find that, until the very end of the game, the player won't feel any difference or detect, unless in very abstract ways, transformations regarding this transition. A campaign with England in 1450 A.D. feels exactly like one in 1070, despite the fact that the military, culture, economy and even societal structure had suffered dramatic, such as the revitalization of commerce, decline of serfdom in Western Europe or the rise of Nation-States. In my opinion, CK II, while representing an intriguing portrait of the Medieval Age as a whole, fails to convey this transformation, that manifested all over the game-map, Europe, the Mediterranean and the Near East.

    1) Naval Warfare

    This seems a no-brainer. It bugged me since release the fact that ships are used only for mobility, and have no impact in warfare. The game starts right about the end of the Viking Era, and when the rampant Muslim piracy in the Mediterranean diminished after the Byzantines restablished their dominance.

    Nevertheless, i believe maritime warfare should be represented, specially to the Northern and Mediterranean nations (i.e. Denmark, Sicily, Aragon) and in the later era (from the 14th century until the end), which could provide a significant military advantage. EU III had its earliest date in the Hundred Years War (1350s), and ships can be used for blockades, which impact in the warscore, then, why not portray a technological advance when we reach the late era in CK II to show a more meaningful presence of navies? Some decisive Medieval battles (in the 14th century) were waged on the sea (Battle of Sluys, of Malta).

    If Republics become indeed playable, obviously this would have to be implemented, as the might of Venice, Genoa and others lay on its ships, not its armies. Nevertheless, this new addition would be extremely useful for Sicily, Aragon or Flanders, for example.

    2) Technology

    This one is the most complicated, i'd like to hear some suggestions. Obviously it would be nonsensical and anachronistic to represent a technological advancement in the scope portrayed by EU, Vicky or HoI. However, i believe we players can agree the technology tree in CKII as for now is fairly useless. Medieval technology progressed significantly, and the current game, with its very abstract "advancements", makes no justice to convey the huge transition of the "Dark Ages" post-Carolingian Europe to the Renaissance. Specially a game that names itself "Crusader" Kings ignores the fact the Crusades restablished the contact between the Western and Eastern worlds that had been lost since the collapse of the WRE, and that by the dawn of the 15th century, the axis of the Western World had moved from Byzantium and the Islamic World (wrecked by the Mongol Invasions) to nascent European powers such as France or Spain.

    My idea is to have something like a mixture of the "National Ideas" and technology trees from EU and Vicky II. Thus, we can have different paths of evolution, you might want to focus more on becoming a seafaring nation (England or Aragon), or foment artistic/cultural development (France with its cathedrals and universities) or warfare (which would be the most complex, representing the transition of the feudal system to the modern armies such as those of 15th century Burgundy or Spain).

    3) Trade and Commerce

    In the game, income = tax you exact from your demesne and vassals. This is another feature that would represent the transition from the 11th to the 15th century. There could be a series of new events and decisions related to this feature. In Medieval Era, commercial enterprises and guilds needed express authorization from the Crown to function, so there could be decisions allowing the establishment of trading posts, hubs of commerce or even maritime trading leagues in yours empire - in the model of the Hanseatic League. For example, you are the king of Galicia, Sicily and Jerusalem, in the middle era there would be an event in which the merchants ask permission to stablish guilds in various city holdings, forming a trading network all over your lands, just like the Holy Orders ask for castles in Jerusalem, or irl, as the Italians created trading posts in Crimea, Croatia, etc. This is another feature that would be essential if Republics become playable in a future DLC.

    Also, this takes me to my next point:

    4) Judaism

    In the official forums, i've found many members agreeing with the opinion that it's inimaginable to represent the Middle Ages without Judaism, in Europe or Asia. The Khazaria region, as the Middle East and Iberia, should have significant jewish populations (there is even one 1066 Khazarian duke in Itil who should be jewish, but is portrayed as an Orthodox Christian). It seems very strange for me that PI put Zoroastrianism and was careful enough to distinguish various forms of Paganism (Norse/Suomenskuo/Tengri - they could have simply named everyone "pagan", like TW), but completely neglected Judaism.

    Now, this is a very touchy subject, yet, PI has not shied away from portraying other brutal historical episodes such as the Trail of Tears, Colonial exploitation or the pogroms in its games. The Crusades saw dark days for the european jews, where they were massacred all over the continent, to the point where the Pope himself made a bull (Sicut Judaeis) to protect them from persecution. For Catholics, similar to some M2TW mods, we could have decisions to allow the establishment of Jewish communities in the city holdings, where they boost taxation, or even decisions where your character may choose to favor this minority (resulting in a piety/prestige increase, but general opinion decrease). For Muslim players, there's the new feature of the Jizya tax, which would be similarly appliable to jews.

    So, what are your opinions and suggestions?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    i d like to have the jews in the game just for 1 thing.To persecute them....of course in a crusader kings way

  3. #3

    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    Judaism isn't bad, they also need an overhaul for the Byzantine empire with the Theme system, and a roman empire Titular title ( ) once you own Rome. A pagan overhaul is inevitable, and some expansion into the different branches of Islam and Paganism and some Rebellions caused by Calvinism and such. An overhaul of the HRE with the Prince Electors being the only ones allowed to nominate successors, with a count palatinate of the Rhine and an Archduke being added too. plus the option to name your heir "King of The Romans" so he is almost guaranteed to succeed you, for a moderate vassal opinion penalty.

  4. #4
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreius Pretorianus View Post
    i d like to have the jews in the game just for 1 thing.To persecute them....of course in a crusader kings way
    As a Jew I much appreciate this comment

    Jokes aside I think those are mostly good suggestions, though is it really possible to make ships only able to fight after a certain date/tech is reached?
    Jew communities could be probably represented as province modifiers and in some areas as a majority (khazaria, some parts of poland maybe, event wise?) and make a special kind of advisors who are Jews with increased traits on money? :p

  5. #5

    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    i was kidding of course.I like to torture all human beings

    Joke aside,i say that jews should be in game,some mods have them as modifiers for provinces wich i find ok.This way,there are no jewish characters and Paradox woulden t have any political problems or Holocaust problems.

  6. #6
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    There should be jewish advisors though

  7. #7
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    As long as I can burn down and loot Jewish settlements without penalty I am fine with that idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  8. #8

    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    As long as I can burn down and loot Jewish settlements without penalty I am fine with that idea.
    +1 )

  9. #9
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII


  10. #10

    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    don t be sad mate,even if the entire world hates you,the USA is still on your side

  11. #11
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    It is not about hate, it is all about historical accuracy. Besides I expect the Jewish settlements would have a huge cultural penalty and ready to revolt most time anyway, so I demand the right to burn it down!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  12. #12
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreius Pretorianus View Post
    don t be sad mate,even if the entire world hates you,the USA is still on your side
    And Palau...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Suggestions of improvements for CKII

    Quote Originally Posted by ♔ King Dain of Erebor ♔ View Post
    Judaism isn't bad, they also need an overhaul for the Byzantine empire with the Theme system, and a roman empire Titular title ( ) once you own Rome. A pagan overhaul is inevitable, and some expansion into the different branches of Islam and Paganism and some Rebellions caused by Calvinism and such. An overhaul of the HRE with the Prince Electors being the only ones allowed to nominate successors, with a count palatinate of the Rhine and an Archduke being added too. plus the option to name your heir "King of The Romans" so he is almost guaranteed to succeed you, for a moderate vassal opinion penalty.
    Calvinism?? I sure hope not, since it did not appear until the 16th century. EU covers the Reformation era rather well, there's no need for Crusader Kings to go down that path, imo.


    I hope they flesh out Byzantium (or Orthodox cultures in general). And pagans of course.

    Naval warfare should be interesting too. It would certainly go a long way to making the Italian merchant republics a meaningful force.

    On trade routes and Judaism I completely agree with the OP.
    Last edited by ivan_the_terrible; July 04, 2012 at 07:19 PM.

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