What's the Point of Island Settlements?

[Exarch]

i don't really see the point of island settlements, namely Cagliari and Ajaccio. or Sicily. Why Bother taking them over? If the enemy has them, better to leave them be if you've got naval superiority, effectively stranding them.

Sure, settlements like Nicosia might be fine as a launching pad for raids and invasions but by that time you should already have other shore based settlements rendering them moot.

Does anyone actually find island settlements to be useful? Are any of them particularly good money makers on the order of Venice or Constantinople?

[Avatar]

Sicily, or more specifically Palermo is a good settlement for raising money. The only thing is that its quite tempting to keep as a castle since it begins the game at Fortress stage, and is in a nice place for attacking in various directions.

The other islands are not especially valuable, although there is an argument for taking them so the AI spends a whole lot of resources attacking them rather than your land cities. I know people say that the AI doesnt like to make naval invasions, but capture Ajaccio or Cagliari and just watch what happens.

[eXistenZ]

True, the AI often land naval invasions, even if you are not at war with them. Sometimes you can even see them coming, a ship with a stack into it.

[lolIsuck]

The whole "AI doesn't do naval invasions" is rather bull because quite some factions do it, maybe not as much as we like but I've seen the English land more then once in Norway or Sweden and our beloved Spanish friends go camping in Wales. Factions with the "prefer naval invasions" do use them, other factions like France or the HRE don't but what's the deal about that as they never really did.

[florin87]

spain and portugal are hardcoded to land in wales/ireland.

the italian factions (sans venice) are hardcoded to invade the mediterranean islands and valencia. sicily always invades tunisia, portugal will sometimes take marakesh, venice will take lybia and danemark will sometimes invade york. byzantium and venice are hardcoded to invade rhodes. scotland and england will on extremely rare occasions (i'm talking 1% probability of it happening) will invade norway.

that's about it.

not once have i seen the ai use their navy to circumvent a heavily defended position, be it iasi, novgorod, gaza, etc.

the turks will simply throw themselves at constatinopole and fail every time even if all the surrounding provinces are barely garrisoned and they have the world's largest fleet dicking around in the black sea.
not once have i seen the danes (supposedly one of the naval factions) launch an invasion from scandinavia. they always take the longer land route, even when they are at war with russia and they have a spy in poorly garrisoned helsinki/novgorod.
not once have i seen germany or france or milan invade england. instead they just dick around in benelux and normandy waiting for an automatic white peace.
if you block the land route across any straight the ai will no longer send reinforcements to the other side. it will simply amass stacks of troops next to the straight and wait, and wait, and wait. or sometimes it will attempt to go around the ing world by land just to get to the other side
"what? travel to iberia on a boat and save besiged granada? that. we are the moorish army, we walk motherer. onwards to egypt and russia"


crusading armies will take on the longer land route 80% of the time, even if they start in italy. the only times i've seen jihad armies use boats was when the jihad was called on an island settlement.


i don't know about you but i don't call those naval invasions.

[Exarch]

i had a real sweet deal with sicily going as the HRE at one point; i minded my own business and allowed them space, and they didn't backstab me. That is, until i purchased Ajaccio from them, and then they landed an army on it, backstabbing me in the process

[PrestigeX]

I find that the Islands tend to be extremely important for military reasons - places to stop, regroup. Staging points for sea-bourne invasion.

In vanilla ireland can be good as an income source, but little else..once you own it , it will never attract attention. Sardinia and Corsica tend to be places you 'mop up' as Milan, Moors, or Sicily will probably by in possession of them.

[Exarch]

well i consider the british isles to be a nuisance; why invest in at least 3 invading armies just to take and hold the island? better to leave it to vassals or raid every now and then. Same with nicosia; sure it's good as a launching pad-for raids, rather than for invasion

[demfl]

Big mistake on not taking the Isles. The Isles holds the key to having a huge income.

[tudor93]

Big mistake on not taking the Isles. The Isles holds the key to having a huge income.

not quite ... in some cases (if not in all) land trade is more profitable than sea trade

[florin87]

depends. rhodes, crete and ireland can be real cash cows if you get a good merchant there and upgrade the ports all the way.

[RollingWave]

AI invasion of certain places is not hard coded.. hard coded means you can not change it in the files... in the case of Spain and Portugal it's simply that they have naval invasion preference enabled and usually the AI will feel that sending a fleet to take rebel Ireland Wales is easier than taking on the huge Moors.

[shikaka]

Island settlements - with the exceptions of Cagliari and Ajaccio, which are invasion magnets - usually wield great returns when turned into a trade city early-mid game. (Late game trade is much less important then taxes)

Having Rhodes, Krete, Cyprus (as cities with ports!), and a few surrounding settlements as Byzantium or the turks is a great way to get money early!

[Angatar]

Want to build a general? Send them to Ajaccio or Cagilari and watch the Moors waste countless armies on you.

[Exarch]

will sicily still try to take ajaccio from you if they're vassals of you?

[Willowran]

Probably, the ai are idiots.

My own views on the original query:

ISLANDS ARE THE FREAKING BEST. In my experience, sea trade ALWAYS trumps land trade. A port can trade over much greater distances with far more settlements than a land settlement. So nabbing the islands (especially in the medditeranian) you get trade hubs that are making money from all over. Super rich settlements... Militarily, islands are harder to assault by your enemies, as it requires them to set up ships to do so. If you have a large enough navy, you can sink them all before they get to oyur island bases, regardless of the quality of their land units. The islands (i am still referring to the mediterranian) also have the ability to send invasion fleets nearly ANYWHERE on the map. Take sicily, for example. From sicily you can strike greece, italy, spain, africa and any land in between in a matter of turns. Especially against the ai, who do not defend well at their furthest back settlements, you can raid their rear lines and smash them from the rear. Having a good land based army is good for expanding, but it limits your direction. I mean, continuing to use sicily as the example: in a single move, you can land troops in italy, france, and africa (i am not sure about greece). Even if you had the weakest navy in the world, against the strongest, as it is your move you can sail, land, and wreak massive havok.

[eXistenZ]

Its true that you can defend your islands easily if you have a good fleet, but a) you have to spot them on time b) hope they get destroyed in one turn, or at least routed away from your island), and c) hope that the nation that plans the invasion is already at war with you, cause if its a neutral faction planning the invasion, you are seen as the warmonger when you have to fend them off

[Willowran]

Even if you don't aim to take them out via the sea, it is STILL easier to defend at an island. Just because it is more difficult to send over troops, you will invariably find youself facing fewer enemy armies intent on taking out your island. The cost of sending over several fleets and full stacks at the same time is a feat only a human would do overseas. Defensive seiges will win out.