Ironborn proposals vote

[Pericles of Athens]

So the vote is four yays(me, Aggy(changed vote), Dain(changed vote), Bonez) and three question person nay.

So here it is I've more or less outlined my ideas(well better in my head) so I'll do it again right here.

Part 1 Raiding

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Raiding will be simple, the reavers will be sent when they arrive a detection roll(20D) will be made(outlined below) that will determine the resistance faced. Assuming the resistance is beaten(if it is not you gain nothing but death) you will have a roll(20D) to see how well the raid went this will be multiplied by the modifier for the regions wealth(outlined below).

The modifiers
Very poor - 500
Poor - 750
Prosperous - 1000
Very prosperous - 1250
Rich - 1500
Very rich - 1750

Let's say 10 ships are sent to raid the Stoney shore first you roll a D20 to see what tries to stopes them, once that is done another 20D roll is made this one is multipled by 500 for a very poor region and that is the loot taken by the Reavers.

Raid detection rolls
1-6: Raid goes ahead totally undetected, province's population's resistance is negligible. No problems, reavers successfully loot the province & go home before a proper response can be mounted. (6/20 chance)
7-17: Raid runs into some trouble and despite initial success, the smallfolk are able to organize a militia and prepare to do their best against the reavers while the local lord's response will still be too slow. 1d20*100 Light Infantry + 1d6*100 Archers will mobilize to oppose the Reavers. (11/20 chance)
18-20: Raid gets spotted well before they even hit the shores, the local lord is able to mobilize the province's strength and oppose the reavers on landing. Whatever part of the local levy hasn't been mobilized yet, including the heavy hitters like HI or HC, will fight the Reavers. (3/20 chance)

Part 2 Reavers

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is also simple more or less it is that each Ironborn ship will have 60 reavers(outlines below). This would leave the Ironborn with a reaver levy of around 40,000 which is fair for the Ironborn at their peak. The Ironborn would still have a levy on each island(made up of only light infantry and maybe just maybe a few archers, this would relate to the size/population of the island) but this would only be used when the island is attacked by outsiders.

For this to work we would need to make Reavers a unit type only for Ironborn. They would have a roll of a d10 in battle, and a roll of d14 in raiding(if the detection roll is from 7-17, ie peasant defense).

I think that's it, hope you see the right side. As Ironborn without reavers and raiding is like Valyria without dragons, dorne without deserts, etc..


Edit
By the way if this Dosnt pass Im not sure I can play the Ironborn. As I won't have anything to do, lol.

[Agamemnon]

I really am not fond of it. Personally, I've been thinking that since we're kinda going off-lore here you shouldn't even get your uber-OP navy.


MAYBE acceptable if Reavers were severely limited (as in, actually CAN'T invade land targets), and you had no other troops at all.

[Pericles of Athens]

That was outlined as part of the restrictions.. Light infantry levy on the islands equals last line of defense ie old, sick, who can't raid. I don't see why I shouldn't have an 'über-OP' navy it's right lore wise.. And without raiding I can't play the Ironborn lol as I said its like Rose being a Valyrian without dragons.

Edit
But I do see why your doing this you know nothing about the Ironborn or westeros in general. lol
Let me tell you the place I'm in-
I have an OVER seas empire
I have the largest navy in westeros by far and away
I am at war with the westerlands the north and the reach
I have the most feared force in west at this time (reavers)
I have the most war like culture in west (again reavers)
Can you read up a little on the lore so your not calling people out when your dead wrong.
If you want to take this stuff from the Ironborn you have to take the westerlands gold, the reaches men and fertile land, dorne's/the north's natural defenses, Valyrian dragons, etc

[Agamemnon]

Look, I can understand why you think you ought to get the exact lore Ironborn navy, and it makes sense. But as can be seen with things like my war with Jakev, we're throwing most of the lore out the window, and since the rest of us will have to start from nothing and build a kingdom, you shouldn't get a massive navy, at least not one that is useful beyond defence and small-time raids. It sounds to me like the Reavers are just normal infantry with special skills, and the provisions for "really good RP" means that you could conceivably use them anywhere and eliminate their only weakness.


I'm not looking at it from a lore standpoint, but a balance standpoint. Rose can have her dragons, so long as there is a balanced system. You can have your fleet too, but this system to me at least just doesn't seem balanced.

[Pericles of Athens]

lol as I said if you take one ship from my fleet you have to take all the other kingdoms advantages. And WTF are you talking about building a kingdom? You have a kingdom(granted a made up one) but you have one. Most people are starting with real kingdoms aggy Barry rules the reach(and gets the largest army) LM rules the martells (who will get massive Rhoynish help any second)

And FYI with a good first roll rose can burn your whole army.. very balanced.

[Agamemnon]

I mean, AFAIK, the other players aren't starting off with the lore-accurate kingdoms of 700 BL, but parts of them.

I might be wrong, ignore me if I am.

[Pericles of Athens]

You are very wrong, you and jake are literally the only people doing that.. Happy that's done.

Can someone delete this argument? As it ended with aggy not knowing how the game worked.

[Agamemnon]

Sorry about that.


Still think Reavers need to be even more nerfed, though, or drastically cut in numbers.

[Pericles of Athens]

40,000 reavers to fight three kingdoms(each having large levies, with cav and archers) isn't much. Plus they can't do anything but raid, protect the home islands, and take islands.

[Agamemnon]

Alright then, fine. But at least remove the "if I RP good enough they can still invade land" part, THAT is where I had a balancing concern.

[Pericles of Athens]

That was copied from an earlier document so it wasn't suppose to be there.. And it's gone. Sorry about that, my bad.

[Agamemnon]

Then change my no vote to a yes.

[Gandalfus]

My vote is really a yes, I just saw the troll option

[jakev2]

I'd want to know the numbers that are decided upon first (i.e. how many ships you can muster and therefore how many reavers) before I can make a decision. I definitely feel that reavers and raids should be in the game in some form, but I also want to see whether the numbers suggested are OP/UP before I vote.

[Barry Goldwater]

We're modifying the levies, atm we're thinking 530 ships total for the Ironborn across their realm (don't worry, it's still much higher than everyone else and it includes the ships from places like Arbor & Bear Island). So we're talking a force of 31,800 Reavers (60*530) across the board, each with a 1d14 battle roll.

[Pericles of Athens]

WTF the arbor had 200 ships, bear island had 10, faurcastle 30 , seaguard 30 and the iron islands 400. Unless all the other have less than 100 that's not fair..

Edit
At this time the Ironborn supremacy at sea was completely unchallenged even with three kingdoms stacked together against it.

[Barry Goldwater]

WTF the arbor had 200 ships, bear island had 10, faurcastle 30 , seaguard 30 and the iron islands 400. Unless all the other have less than 100 that's not fair..

Relax, we're still talking it over in the Mod Dungeon. You could see up to 730 ships, actually (which is what I'm pushing for), with 43,800 Reavers total that way.

[Pericles of Athens]

So the vote is three yays(me, Aggy(changed vote), Dain(changed vote)) and one question person nay.

Edit
Can you guys please post what you voted for when you vote(I didnt set the vote up right)?

[Bonez]

Let's say 10 ships are sent to raid the Stoney shore first you roll a D20 to see what tries to stopes them, once that is done another 20D roll is made this one is multipled by 500 for a very poor region and that is the loot taken by the Reavers.

Umm, they have and can be beaten back in raids, therefore if men are mustered then the raid will move to a battle with the Reavers getting an advantage. You should clarify that so, because of a loophole, you don't end up with money even if you lose.

Along with that, the Reavers were so feared because they are based off of Vikings, and what have we learned about the Vikings of our world? They are fearsome and are almost impossible to beat at sea, or while they are raiding, yet if they try to hold conquest something goes awry. Therefore I suggest that the Reavers get a +10 for battles (whatever new system, so D20*10) outside of raids and such to take down some uberness while leaving most of it, and they get an additional +4 (so D20*14) when battling any forces during a raid or such.

[Gandalfus]

So they get a +10 on normal battles? Lol no way.