Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

[Gaidin]

It means more if you look at the background material. Brienne is supposedly a descendant of Duncan the Tall, who was the original "Knight of the Seven Kingdoms", and he was seen by the commonfolk as the epitome of the ideals of knighthood, even though there is some doubt over whether or not he was ever legitimately knighted in the first place. Duncan was also chief of the King's Guard. Jaime is also chief of the King's Guard, but his belief in the ideals of knighthood and the King's Guard are well and truly gone. Except for seeing it in Brienne, whom he sees as his chance of redeeming his honour and ideals. So both Duncan and his descendant Brienne are both non-knights, but are seen as the personification of the ideals that knighthood supposedly embodies, even while the narrative around them drives the point that knighthood is in reality all about violence and force ruling over the weak.

Jaime's my favorite character in this sense honestly. The sheer journey he's made and how other characters have effected him, either positively or negatively.

[Roma_Victrix]

The hound

That was poetry. That uploader made art like a warrior poet, like Scotsmen, like a true :wub:er and Youtube poop generator.

[Gaidin]

The crossover we never knew we needed.

[Gaidin]

Brienne of Tarth. Ser. Ser Brienne of Tarth. Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Ser Brienne of Tarth's lifelong dream finally came true. It's a fitting reward for what we know is one of the most selfless people in the Song of Ice and Fire, and she's spent her entire life in the service of others.

She was always part of the main story, but only part. She's been...there. Rarely getting a chance to stand out on her own, with a few exceptions with Jaime. This is not an accident. Brienne is a character long given up dreams of her own. Instead she sought to help others achieve theirs.

Back to Brienne's upbringing. When she was young, all she wanted was to be a Knight. But, as the only child of Tarth, she had her duty. She was told she couldn't be a Knight because she's a woman. She eventually accepted it 'as the way things are'. For a little while she even tried to play her part as a proper Tarth Lady. Funny thing, her father even threw a Tarth Ball, inviting Lords to vie for her hand in marriage. Boys fought to dance with her and told her she was beautiful, but were screwing with her. It was a trick that scarred her against wanting anything for herself.
At that ball Renly Baratheon saved her from the humiliation that was, well, the demand for pure beauty. Renly danced with her. He danced with her and told her to ignore those "little " who mocked her. That moment was when she chose to pledge her life to helping good and kind people, if not by being a Lady, then a Knight--or as close as she could be.

Brienne has always done things for others. Never herself. She lives by a code of honor and traveled the world to keep her promises. She fought for a place in Renley's Kingsguard. Then, after he was killed by Melisandre's blood magic, she swore and oath to avenge his death and killed Stannis Baratheon. She pledged an oath to Catelyn Stark to keep her daughters safe, and succeeded. She also promised to bring Jaime back to King's Landing, whatever the odds, and she did.

Brienne became a knight in everything but name. Jaime gifted her a sword, which she named Oathkeeper, and sent Podrick to be her squire. She has armor Jaime had commissioned for her-- ironically Hot Pie had to point out was essentially how you spot Knights. But, you'll notice, she never asked anyone to make her one, not even Renly, who was King in her eyes. Only Kings and Knights can make other nights in this world. Lords can stand back and wait. Brienne herself comments on this with Podrick. He asks if she can knight him. She can't because she's a Lady, not a Knight.

The thing is, while Kings and Knights can make other Knights, it might not mean they should. Knighting a woman, or someone unfitting for the position, could lead to huge consequences. Renly loses support of his army? Who knows. But Brienne is so selfless, she couldn't imagine risking the safety of anyone for her dream. She just accepted it. The way things are.

Then Tormund Beyond-the-Wall naivety spoke.

Tyrion: "Pardon me, Lady Brienne."

Tormund: "She's not a Ser? You're not a Knight?"

Brienne: "Women can't be Knights."

Tormund: "Why not?"

Brienne: "Tradition"

Tormund: " tradition."

Brienne: "I didn't even want to be a Knight."

Tormund: "I'm no King, but if I were, I'd knight you ten times over."

Let's face it. We, anyone. Any culture. Who knows where. We might just accept these things as normal anywhere anytime anyplace. In times like these it may take decades to changes. But once you have someone from the outside who just has no clue. He's used to fighting with anybody and everybody able to carry a weapon above the age of thirteen....gender don't matter.... You need that outsider to just come and ask a simple question about one's traditions!

He just goes, 'I've heard of the big woman...how the **** is she not a Knight?!'

There was this utter pause as Jaime is drinking his wine and listening to this conversation. Thought. Dangerous thought. Yesssss. He can fix this. Especially since they're breaking so much precedent by having Queens now. And once Tormund is done he practically does....all but having made up his mind as soon as the northerner started talking.

You don't need a King. You just need another Knight. Maybe...maybe...an official witness. And so we have every other present Ser's role plus the Hand.

Brienne is so shocked she looks to Podrick. Her dream...is it real? He has to nod back. Yes. It's real. This is yours. Take it. She kneels.

"In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the innocent."
There has been no other Knight more true to these words without even being a Knight. And through it all she has this serious ceremonious look on her face. But once she stands, my god, she gets for what is her a -eating grin on her face and its beautiful.


It all directly parallels the tragedy of the ball at the beginning of her life. But here, it heals instead of breaks. She's surrounded by a group of men she's gone through with and come out the other side. She takes on a chance when offered what she wants. Unlike that ball, where she's mocked, there's love, trust, and acceptance.

[Roma_Victrix]

^ Firstly, I love the meme about Ash from Evil Dead, him and Jaime would become the next Bronn and Jaime adventure comedy duo.

Secondly, that's an excellent rundown of Brienne's career as a warrior and now an official knight of the Seven Kingdoms. The death of Renly was so tragic for her given how he had honored her by naming her the head of his Kingsguard. She achieved justice, though, by killing Stannis outside of Winterfell as he was wounded from battle with the Boltons. Now she has been elevated once more and it's a pleasure to see given the things her character has been through.

Thirdly, I could be wrong, but I swear that GOT is sending us, the audience, secret messages about the Night King's revival of Stark dead in the crypts to join his army of the undead. They deliberately chose Jenny's Song for Pod to sing during the latest episode. The lyrics, while about something else entirely since Jenny was the wife of Duncan Targaryen, the Prince of Dragonflies, could be saying something about the surviving Starks as the crypts get taken over below them (and we know from the main season 8 trailer that Arya is running from something horrifying in the crypts of Winterfell during the next episode):

[La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham]

I was delighted to see Pod becoming a proficient fighter, I'm sure Brienne will knight him?

[conon394]

@Roma_Victrix:

I think they dropped 'safe in the crypts' enough (and add the trailer) that we can be certain they are not will likely be. Perhaps the cause of the defeat(or highly Pyrrhic sort of victory) I think we expect even if they off the Night king.

OK so we had the night before battle episode bets for will be Dead by the end of episode 3?

I would say Theon is a given. His return seems to a nod back to the books where he thinks he should have died at the Red wedding with Robb as a Stark.
Lord Friend Zone
Grey Worm that hopeful conversation was a death sentence
Dondorion for certain
Ed (don't they say our watch is begun at the funerals for the crows)
Maybe got lucky boy (he was slumbering but Arya had a bleak stare)
One of the triangle of Brianne and her two gentlemen callers.
At least one dragon so that its not a cake walk down to King's landing if there is not an absolute defeat but some sort of win
Maybe Pod

But I figure they will go for more dead so who looses plot armor?

[Ishan]

I think the bets should be, who will most definitely survive episode 3? Yara for one.

[Roma_Victrix]

^ Those are all very reasonable guesses. I think they're saving the Hound for Cleganebowl as hinted at last season. I don't think they'll kill Tyrion since he needs to play out his tensions with Daenerys. Obviously Bran the Three Eyed Raven isn't going to die, at least not yet; he's too useful as a plot device. If Melisandre doesn't show up during the middle of this, Varys will likely live to see the end of this battle, and will probably try to betray Daenerys at some point in the near future, in some later episode as hinted in season 7.

If Jaime is actually Azor Ahai, then there's no way he's dying just yet. Sadly, that would leave Tormund as the one who dies in the love triangle.

[Kyriakos]

I hope Arya dies. ^_^

[Gaidin]

I don't. I want her to be here because the Faceless God wants her to be Arya Stark for this battle but after the Army of the Dead and the Night King is dealt with she becomes No One again.

[Ishan]

Arya should have been cut off after Bravos. But killing her now in a stupid way would annoy me.

[Gaidin]

See, there are always character endings that mirror other scenes that were the beginnings of the arcs(see Brienne and how she was Knighted vs how she was treated at her ball).

I'm picturing something like this between Arya and either Jon or Sansa(or both):


Where Theon dying defending Bran in the castle he took from him is a good mirror. Especially since he was broken in it, and even rescued Sansa in it. If you look at all the other character arcs you'll see this forming. You can go down the list and make some pretty solid predictions based on their past actions.

[conon394]

I hope Arya dies. ^_^

what exactly is your bug against her as a character?

[Kyriakos]

what exactly is your bug against her as a character?

She is a superhero by now. Makes the show more of a soap-opera. When the series started there weren't such characters around

[conon394]

She is a superhero by now. Makes the show more of a soap-opera. When the series started there weren't such characters around

Jaquen was not? Dragons are not? Even the very existence of Varys is as well and that is one at the beginning.

[Ishan]

I was delighted to see Pod becoming a proficient fighter, I'm sure Brienne will knight him?

I have a feeling that one of them is going to die this Sunday. Hope I'm wrong.

[Gaidin]

She is a superhero by now. Makes the show more of a soap-opera. When the series started there weren't such characters around

Season 1 is asking why you kept watching after the Other killed the Rangers five minutes into the show.

[Knight of Heaven]

Arya hasn't been good since season 5.

[Gaidin]

Arya hasn't been good since season 5.

Hardly the point we're making. He's whining about how a fantasy show has...fantasy.

Yet, the bad guys are...just...there. He has issues with how the good guys start from nothing and work their way up in a multi-season arc to something. Arya after the red wedding learns many things that help her along with the fundamentals of her water dancing before she goes to the House of Black and White and gets actual assassin training nevermind what the Faceless God actually gifts to his acolytes. Dany has dragons that she spends the entire show raising as almost as a parallel to the armies and fleets she's putting together as she's ruling the slave city. Melisandre is able to put out deadly blood magic and able to make accurate to the point of wtf predictions but when this goes wrong she has an existential crisis and takes one last leap of faith for her Blood God and manages to do the one thing she's never been able to do, raise Jon Snow from the dead.

All through this the bad guys are just...there. Their abilities are known. Occasionally shown, but known. Seen at the Fist of the First Men and Hard Home. Ways are discovered in how to kill them by Samwell and Jon Snow. But they don't have to earn their powers over the show. They're just there.

Kyriakos "There weren't such characters around" is whining about how the heroes go through an arc over eight seasons and earn their powers and training and supplies that mass the amount of dragonglass through which they'll counter the dead. But he has no problem with the fact that the Dead are there five minutes in?

Dude can come up with a better argument now please.