Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

**Caesar Germanico** · June 16, 2014, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Prof

Actually, when they arrived at the cave, they were attacked by wights, but Jojen didn't get killed.
And Leaf said, she saved them by burning the wights.
Also Coldhands left them, because he could not enter the cave since it was warded against wights and white walkers.

I know.No evil skeletons and no ball of fires, leaf used a simple torch.

**Prof** · June 16, 2014, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Caesar Germanico

I know.No evil skeletons and no ball of fires, leaf used a simple torch.

Those skeletons are the wights that attacked them.

**Caesar Germanico** · June 16, 2014, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Prof

Those skeletons are the wights that attacked them.

I know but they where not skeletons in the books.We already seen wights on the show, they work, while the skeletons are out of place in it.

**ggggtotalwarrior** · June 16, 2014, 07:42 PM

Seriously how the hell do people in this thread that never read the books keep saying "well the books seem stupid" and talk about future story lines without reading them? Then they complain about the show's quality? There were aspects I didn't like (particularly Brans scenes and other small changes), but I won't hate on one of TV's best shows. Seriously if you dislike it so much why are you here, and if you didn't read them how do you call the books crap? Your ignorance makes me want to break the TOS.

Also, has anyone noticed the series has a tendency to make the book's weaker moments more interesting, but the better moments worse?

**Prof** · June 16, 2014, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Caesar Germanico

I know but they where not skeletons in the books.We already seen wights on the show, they work, while the skeletons are out of place in it.

They have just been there a bit longer than most other wights shown so far and are therefore more decayed.

**Captain Jin** · June 16, 2014, 09:38 PM

Honestly they looked better than the Wights we saw earlier on. Maybe because of an increase in budget. I dunno.

**Swiss Army Cheese** · June 16, 2014, 09:45 PM

As a non-book reader, may I be the first to say, HOLY

ING

! SKELETONS!

But seriously, you guys are major buzzkills. I found the notion of the White Walkers having unmeatbagged on their side to be majorly disturbing and shocking. Yet all I am hearing from you lot is "*exagerated accent that takes place west of Lebanon and east of Sicily* They're getting too skinny", "Books had a narrower cast of zombies, and any variety in their ranks is bad".

Originally Posted by Kyriakos

^But even in the show Stannis claims that he has little to no horses left (or other animals, btw), so it would make little sense to just buy 2K horses to have his troop remains on them without even bothering to train them as mounted troops (not that they would need training if they are 2K and go against around 50 peasants in a sparse forest

).

Btw, what were those yellow banners the cavalry had? Is that tied to house Baratheon, or some mercenery group?

Well it is the gold company, and yellow is a colour of gold.
-----

Cersei and the Maester. When I watched that scene, I had a strange sense of deja vu, as if I read a spoiler containing that scene yet I cannot recall it in any form. Yet I am sure (without looking the scene up on any wiki) that this moment isn't from the book, since it implicates that The Mountain may yet still live (GOOD NEWS!)
I have a feeling that a certain ser of the house Clegane will wake up soon one morning, gazing at the skyline of King's Landing with his bright blue eyes.

Originally Posted by Caesar Germanico

I know but they where not skeletons in the books.We already seen wights on the show, they work, while the skeletons are out of place in it.

Unmeatbags or "Skeletons" as you like to call them, may be out of place in this show, but that is precisely why they work as a scary threat.

**RedGuard** · June 16, 2014, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Swiss Army Cheese

As a non-book reader, may I be the first to say, HOLY

ING

! SKELETONS!

But seriously, you guys are major buzzkills. I found the notion of the White Walkers having unmeatbagged on their side to be majorly disturbing and shocking. Yet all I am hearing from you lot is "*exagerated accent that takes place west of Lebanon and east of Sicily* They're getting too skinny", "Books had a narrower cast of zombies, and any variety in their ranks is bad".

Well it is the gold company, and yellow is a colour of gold.
-----

Cersei and the Maester. When I watched that scene, I had a strange sense of deja vu, as if I read a spoiler containing that scene yet I cannot recall it in any form. Yet I am sure (without looking the scene up on any wiki) that this moment isn't from the book, since it implicates that The Mountain may yet still live (GOOD NEWS!)
I have a feeling that a certain ser of the house Clegane will wake up soon one morning, gazing at the skyline of King's Landing with his bright blue eyes.

Unmeatbags or "Skeletons" as you like to call them, may be out of place in this show, but that is precisely why they work as a scary threat.

its not the golden company. they wear like bronze-age charioteer looking armor. at least they should when they're finally introduced.

**aero26** · June 16, 2014, 11:08 PM

Why is CGI expensive anyway? Isn't it just labor? And a strong computer? lol

**Knight of Heaven** · June 17, 2014, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by aero26

Why is CGI expensive anyway? Isn't it just labor? And a strong computer? lol

Because that is always cheap....

**Påsan** · June 17, 2014, 03:15 AM

Best ending yet. This show is really growing on me

Btw regarding the battle: The cavalry attack was a perfect pincer move against the sole leadership of the wildling army, throwing them into utter disarray. And those where knights. To stop them they would need to be organized, armed and quite possibly Swiss.

Numbers don't mean much when there's nobody giving orders.

**Stavroforos** · June 17, 2014, 06:52 AM

Or when those numbers actually end up being about 15 guys gathered around a campfire.

**tarvu** · June 17, 2014, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Swiss Army Cheese

As a non-book reader, may I be the first to say, HOLY

ING

! SKELETONS!

But seriously, you guys are major buzzkills. I found the notion of the White Walkers having unmeatbagged on their side to be majorly disturbing and shocking. Yet all I am hearing from you lot is "*exagerated accent that takes place west of Lebanon and east of Sicily* They're getting too skinny", "Books had a narrower cast of zombies, and any variety in their ranks is bad".

Well it is the gold company, and yellow is a colour of gold.
-----

Cersei and the Maester. When I watched that scene, I had a strange sense of deja vu, as if I read a spoiler containing that scene yet I cannot recall it in any form. Yet I am sure (without looking the scene up on any wiki) that this moment isn't from the book, since it implicates that The Mountain may yet still live (GOOD NEWS!)
I have a feeling that a certain ser of the house Clegane will wake up soon one morning, gazing at the skyline of King's Landing with his bright blue eyes.

Unmeatbags or "Skeletons" as you like to call them, may be out of place in this show, but that is precisely why they work as a scary threat.

Book Spoilers regarding Qyburn/Cersei.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

@person who said I couldn't read because I said that Tyrion forgives Jaime in the books. Of course he does/will, because his only conflict with Jaime is and always has been Jaime's relationship and devotion with Cersei who hates Tyrion. Also he has plenty of reasons for leaving. Tysha was an unnecessary plot device, we have Shae in the show happening in real time we don't need further backstory to explain why someone hated by and who disgusts a large portion of the population of the realm would favor prostitutes. Or why he would hate a sister and father who have always wanted him dead and just now finally got their wish by having him found guilty of regicide and sentenced to die.

....and all your moaning about him being "a good guy" is ridiculous as he is obviously meant by GRRM to be sympathetic in the eyes of the audience just like all the Starks, Daenarys, and (sometimes) Stannis (who is obviously a "villian" in the book).

All his characters are flawed, sure, but some have less forgivable sins and motivations that are a huge part of their character development, and meant to make you not like them. Unless of course I guess you share their same generally looked down upon traits. lol Likewise, how re-devoting your reign to freeing slaves after having experienced being powerless yourself (rather than merely regaining the throne of your crazed and murderous father simply because it is your "right") is supposed to endear people to Daenarys, but not certain people around here LOL.

Sometimes I get upset by the ridiculous reasoning of some people on this board, but then I remember what this forum is for and that people are clearly way too into fantasy/history roleplaying.

**Caesar Germanico** · June 17, 2014, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Påsan

Best ending yet. This show is really growing on me

Btw regarding the battle: The cavalry attack was a perfect pincer move against the sole leadership of the wildling army, throwing them into utter disarray. And those where knights. To stop them they would need to be organized, armed and quite possibly Swiss.

Numbers don't mean much when there's nobody giving orders.

The fact is that we have not seen enough wildlings to feel like a battle and it was silly having them charging in the woods, you don't need to be a military expert or an ancient battles fanboy to know that.Furthermore, having Mance (whom was perfomed excellently by the amazing actor that Hinds is) not even attempting to fight was a very unwildiling thing to do, very not-king beyond the wall.

Originally Posted by Prof

They have just been there a bit longer than most other wights shown so far and are therefore more decayed.

Ah!Nice!Didn't think it about like that.Not sure how in this case they were described in the book (if at all).

Anyway, the main issue is not really what they look like but how they act.They are not the same wights we have seen before, these skeleton are fast, don't fight like automatons/zombies and even use many weapons.Having Bran's group fight a wave of normal wights that is surrounding them would have been better, no reason to use the silly fireballs (a torch like the books would have been enough) and it would have worked better continuity wise.The skeletons looked cliche' (evil army raised by some mysterious evil lord) and if you think about not even more dangerous than a pack of wights would have, Hodor and Meera were easily dealing with them.I mean, we had very low magic in the show, and what we had was excellently build up to (just think all the talk we heard about wights/walkers or the dragons skulls/eggs we seen for an entire season) following perfectly the spirit of the books (which indeed are very rarely silly in this kind of things).Instead here we had, just like Timeon said, something out of place and fitting only to something akin to Dungeons and Dragons.

This sequence is further weird if you think about what they usually do with magic elements, they have been very (too much probably) preoccupied to not scare the casual/tvshow-only audience away and yet here they went in a completely different direction.

**Caesar Germanico** · June 17, 2014, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by tarvu

Book Spoilers regarding Qyburn/Cersei.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

@person who said I couldn't read because I said that Tyrion forgives Jaime in the books. Of course he does/will, because his only conflict with Jaime is and always has been Jaime's relationship and devotion with Cersei who hates Tyrion. Also he has plenty of reasons for leaving. Tysha was an unnecessary plot device, we have Shae in the show happening in real time we don't need further backstory to explain why someone hated by and who disgusts a large portion of the population of the realm would favor prostitutes. Or why he would hate a sister and father who have always wanted him dead and just now finally got their wish by having him found guilty of regicide and sentenced to die.

....and all your moaning about him being "a good guy" is ridiculous as he is obviously meant by GRRM to be sympathetic in the eyes of the audience just like all the Starks, Daenarys, and (sometimes) Stannis (who is obviously a "villian" in the book).

All his characters are flawed, sure, but some have less forgivable sins and motivations that are a huge part of their character development, and meant to make you not like them. Unless of course I guess you share their same generally looked down upon traits. lol Likewise, how re-devoting your reign to freeing slaves after having experienced being powerless yourself (rather than merely regaining the throne of your crazed and murderous father simply because it is your "right") is supposed to endear people to Daenarys, but not certain people around here LOL.

Sometimes I get upset by the ridiculous reasoning of some people on this board, but then I remember what this forum is for and that people are clearly way too into fantasy/history roleplaying.

The reasoning about wanting Tyrion to be a more "grey" character exist because he is indeed grey (perhaps light grey) and that makes him more realistic as a human and it ties better with his background (which as we heard in season 1 is the same in the show).GRRM mentioned plenty of times the character from the show is somewhat different than the books, and that while he is truly meant to be a fan favourite (he even is GRRM's favourite) as he is an amusing/clever underdog, he also needs his flaws to make the story work (indeed the Shae flip flop is quite absurd, she truly loves him and then she wants to kill him?) and we have not seen these flaws at all in the show.The Tysha background is not important only for Tyrion as many have already repeated but also to Jaime, furthermore it's not only the prostitutes favoring (clients to prostitues might be completely healthy towards women yet "use" them) but the guilt.He didn't protest when his wife was gang raped by Tywin' soldiers and he himself raped her (though he was somewhat forced to), he feels guilty for this even when he truly believed she was a whore, now he is completely devasted.This kind of stuff is so powerful that make his self-loathing and the completely transformed nature of his character later in the story work!Finally, Jaime is not at all forgiven, I don't know where you have got that from.Tyrion sometimes feel regret for his lie to him but he still hates him, and for good reason.Jaime was a kingsguard, he could have ignored Tywin at the time, yet for his moral weaknees allowed that debacle to happen and lied to Tyrion.If the person you trusted most in the world, did something like that how would you feel?Basically all their story together, all their relationship gets shattered by it, that is why if they eventually meet again (don't think they will, Jaime is an importan secondary character while Tyrion is a main) Tyrion could very well harm his brother.

Your condescending last sentence is quite ridiculous my friend, just because most members of this board are fans of fantasy/history they can't understand storytelling?On the contrary, if you are sufficiently smart (I guess at least one of us is) thinking a good deal about something or loving it deeply makes you reason with it quite well.Also, I am (and probably others too, people are not so simple minded) not only a history/fantasy fanboy.Finally, as said before, the "reasoning" you don't like is clearly the author's reasoning.You can interpret the material your own way only to a certain degree, what is objective (greyer characters, motivation shifts with said characters ecc) is to an extent objective for everyone.

**beckyolt** · June 17, 2014, 08:28 AM

All book readers are right. Zombies instead of skeletons would've made the show far more mature and realistic instead of this fantasy skeleton crap.

Agreed about the fireballs though.

I disagree. They love each other, and when Tyrion lies to Jaime, it shows the development he goes through. In the books he's a self-loathing character who only works with Varys to hope and get revenge (which he half-heartedly believes in anyways) on his family. His family's disdain for him finally culminates in his and Jaime's speech and his visit to Tywin. He's an

of a character. In the show, EVERY single instance that could besmirch a favorable opinion of him is changed around to seem like Tyrion does nothing wrong and is always the victim (Small Council's discussion about the Others in season 2/self defense against Shae for chrissakes. Just 2 examples).

His interaction with Tywin is diminished as well in how he says he loved Shae and not Tysha. When he learns the truth about Tysha from Jaime, that's when he gets pissed and decides to visit Tywin, augmented by the build up from Tywin's years of dislike for him. The show, we really only see Tyrion presently with Shae, no exposition on Tysha, a person who is a major part of creating Tyrion's personality and why he hates his father so much

So people actually think the only reason Tyrion hates Tywin is because of Tysha? Really? wow. He had plenty of reasons to kill Tywin even without her. And it seems like people forget that Bronn, after Tyrion telling the Tysha story to him, says "I'd kill the man who did that to me, no matter if I was 13 or 30" and Tyrion kind of agrees. AKA, even without knowing the truth about the whole deal, it was still an enormous dick move from Tywin's part and certainly enough to earn him Tyrion's hatred - or more of it, as I said Tysha was just the last straw on a lifetime of humilliations and abuses.

**Kyriakos** · June 17, 2014, 08:37 AM

They watched this show for 4 seasons.
And now their watch has ended.

**tarvu** · June 17, 2014, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Caesar Germanico

The reasoning about wanting Tyrion to be a more "grey" character exist because he is indeed grey (perhaps light grey) and that makes him more realistic as a human and it ties better with his background (which as we heard in season 1 is the same in the show).GRRM mentioned plenty of times the character from the show is somewhat different than the books, and that while he is truly meant to be a fan favourite (he even is GRRM's favourite) as he is an amusing/clever underdog, he also needs his flaws to make the story work (indeed the Shae flip flop is quite absurd, she truly loves him and then she wants to kill him?) and we have not seen these flaws at all in the show.The Tysha background is not important only for Tyrion as many have already repeated but also to Jaime, furthermore it's not only the prostitutes favoring (clients to prostitues might be completely healthy towards women yet "use" them) but the guilt.He didn't protest when his wife was gang raped by Tywin' soldiers and he himself raped her (though he was somewhat forced to), he feels guilty for this even when he truly believed she was a whore, now he is completely devasted.This kind of stuff is so powerful that make his self-loathing and the completely transformed nature of his character later in the story work!Finally, Jaime is not at all forgiven, I don't know where you have got that from.Tyrion sometimes feel regret for his lie to him but he still hates him, and for good reason.Jaime was a kingsguard, he could have ignored Tywin at the time, yet for his moral weaknees allowed that debacle to happen and lied to Tyrion.If the person you trusted most in the world, did something like that how would you feel?Basically all their story together, all their relationship gets shattered by it, that is why if they eventually meet again (don't think they will, Jaime is an importan secondary character while Tyrion is a main) Tyrion could very well harm his brother.

Your condescending last sentence is quite ridiculous my friend, just because most members of this board are fans of fantasy/history they can't understand storytelling?On the contrary, if you are sufficiently smart (I guess at least one of us is) thinking a good deal about something makes you reason with it quite well.Finally, as said before, the "reasoning" you don't like is clearly the author's reasoning.You can interpret the material your own way only to a certain degree, what is objective (greyer characters, motivation shifts with said characters ecc) is to an extent objective for everyone.

My point was not that an interest in history makes someone incapable of understanding storytelling. I said roleplaying as in adapting the motivation of these characters who actually subscribe to the superiority of things like one's lineage over merit, and not seeing slavery or the killing of innocents as necessarily such a bad thing..

People who are in love with Stannis for example. Why do they like Stannis? What is likeable about him? He believes in "honor"? Whereas Ned Stark believes in honor out of an obligation to try and protect people, Stannis believes in "honor" in regards to it making him king or lord/whatever, he cares about position specifically his own. He punishes people because it is his right, and his justice. He is completely irrational as demonstrated over and over again (way more so than Daenarys), and as for him caring about traditions or honor I think if that were actually the case (not that it would matter if it was, because it still wouldn't make him likeable) he would not have so quickly adopted a new religion just because he was told he was its messiah, and then gone as far as to not only abandon those long loyal to him like the maester, or his vassals, but even be willing to kill his own ing adorable innnocent little girl. GRRM needs Davos to make Stannis even remotely relatable, but through him we see his blind adoration fading unfortunately some of you seem to be stuck on Davos' first chapter in regards to Stannis's character development. By even this point in the books it is clear that Stannis is actually little more than a vain silly man propped up by Davos's cunning, and Mellisandre's dark magic.

Yeah Stannis rocks. But Daenarys is such a total

for falling in love with a handsome mercenary and insisting on freeing people from slavery, I mean who could possibly identify with her over the great Stannis.

Back to Tysha, in the books it is necessary. In the TV show Dinklage has already portrayed Tyrion's self loathing a great deal over the course of the last 3 seasons, adding that storyline in is simply was not necessary. We don't need his/Cersei's early (pre-book period/flashback) development gone over with fine toothed comb because the actors that play these roles are fully capable of portraying the personalities of these characters in real time.

The show is incredibely popular and critically a huge success, that it disappoints some rabid fans of the book who are I'm thinking clearly fans for all the wrong reasons is only a testament that they are doing things the right way. If they made the show you people want, it would have been canceled before the first season was done airing and we would have nothing.

**Caesar Germanico** · June 17, 2014, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by beckyolt

So people actually think the only reason Tyrion hates Tywin is because of Tysha? Really? wow.

Where did you read that?There is nothing of that sort even in the quote you replied to.

In the books killing Tywin is risky and there is not much time to escape (as it sure should be, were all the guards on strike in the show?), because of that Tyrion decides to kill only after he hears the true story from Jaime.He says

it, I will try to kill Tywin even if that means risking everything.He surely would have liked to kill him anyway, but for the last time...Tysha is important for his state of mind later and for Jaime.