Game of Thrones: TV Series - Season 8 (Book spoilers in tags with warning)

[mike^_^]

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[maxi90]

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To all non-readers: Beware, for here there be spoilers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I thought you were trying not to spoil what will happen with the rest of the leeches in the next season. But if you are serious, Mel might have forseen the future in the fire and then play the hoax to convince Stannis of murdering his nephew, but that is only one interpretation, the other being that her magic did play some part in it. Maybe Rob would have died either way, but maybe not. Maybe the conspiracy would have been exposed before the wedding, maybe he could have escaped somehow, or maybe roslin could have a change of heart and warn them at the last minute. The point is, we don´t know, and until it is explicitly said which answer is right, all interpretations are equaly valid.

[mike^_^]

I thought you were trying not to spoil what will happen with the rest of the leeches in the next season. But if you are serious, Mel might have forseen the future in the fire and then play the hoax to convince Stannis of murdering his nephew

Yes this is exactly what she did. She believes she can wake (one of) the stone dragons on Dragonstone by burning someone with King's Blood alive.

, but that is only one interpretation, the other being that her magic did play some part in it. Maybe Rob would have died either way, but maybe not. Maybe the conspiracy would have been exposed before the wedding, maybe he could have escaped somehow, or maybe roslin could have a change of heart and warn them at the last minute. The point is, we don´t know, and until it is explicitly said which answer is right, all interpretations are equaly valid.

Wtf? Talk about reaching. Yeah so Melisandre's leech magic totally kept the plot a secret!! Robb didn't run away because of the leech magic! Gotcha.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Melisandre's magic had nothing to do with the death of the Kings. All three of them were plots that had been in planning for some time. This is ridiculous that there is even a discussion to the contrary. Balon's death could POSSIBLY be chalked up to magic, but as no one was witness to it, and that it is not disputed that he actually fell off the bridge (whether murdered by the jealous Storm God, or simply "fell"). On Balon's death however, we have a seer who ALSO has a vision of his death, I don't have the text at hand, but it's pretty well implied that Euron had a faceless man kill him, or murdered him himself.

[Bobz]

We have a Red Viper, Pedro Pascal.

Anyone know anything about him? Can't make much of an opinion myself.

[Stavroforos]

I thought the Martells were supposed to be a bit darker?

[shadepanther]

I thought the Martells were supposed to be a bit darker?

I think the men of Dorne can range from looking Spanish to looking Arabic. But I think the Martells are more light skinned (Hispanic) than the populace at the capital

[Bobz]

I thought the Martells were supposed to be a bit darker?

I always viewed them as some sort of Mediterranean mix myself. He looks alright to me in the looks compartment.

[Stavroforos]

He looks a bit like a young Barristan Selmy, to my eyes at least.

[Shneckie]

Not how I pictured him either but he may look different once we see him in character. There is supposed to be quite a diverse racial make up in Dorne though. Martells being lighter skinned than most I think.

Looks like Liam Neeson I reckon.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

I was thinking about the Red Wedding scene and how Roose said "The Lannisers send their regards", rather than "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" from the books. I may be nitpicking here (and I probably am), but I still feel like that the book line had a better impact. It showed that a) once more, Jaime Lannister did something despicable (just as you got to like him), and more imprtantly, b)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

it really triggers Stoneheart's extreme hatred towards Jaime, because it means he broke his oath yet again, killing her last children (or so she thinks) and herself, especially after what she did for him (releasing him and probably sooner or later saving his life from vindictive Stark troops). It shows how it's pretty much better not to do something good for other people in GoT universe.

Now the guilt lies more with the Lannisters in general, for people who watch the series this means Joffrey and Tywin, and I think it would have made Jaime an even more complex and interesting character (in the series), because that's the cool thing about Jaime. His whole life is a chain of good deeds following bad deeds following good deeds. I feel like now they're going to make him too good, noble and likeable in the series.

Guy is guilty of incest and he threw a child out of a window, there's nothing noble about him He can save 1.000.000 babies and he'll remain despicable because of the filthy incest and throwing Bran out a window.

I can't understand why some people sympathize with him, he bangs his goddamn sister for Christs sake, and on top of that threw a kid out of a window

[SLN445]

I can overlook the incest but not the Bran thing.

[Bobz]

Guy is guilty of incest and he threw a child out of a window, there's nothing noble about him He can save 1.000.000 babies and he'll remain despicable because of the filthy incest and throwing Bran out a window.

I can't understand why some people sympathize with him, he bangs his goddamn sister for Christs sake, and on top of that threw a kid out of a window

This is up to your own morals really, but I don't see how incest is an unforgivable action. Not that I condone it, but throwing Bran out the window is far worse.

Jamie's story arc is really based around him losing his hand. He crippled Bran, and in turn he was crippled, which in a way evens things out and allows Jamie to become a much better person.

[Stavroforos]

I can overlook the incest but not the Bran thing.

I can overlook both.

[beckyolt]

Meh Oberyn.


I really hoped we'd have Oded Fehr. That dude is Oberyn.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

So... how's the RW *bleep*storm been? how many TV watchers flipped out on here after that?

[Toho]

I think the men of Dorne can range from looking Spanish to looking Arabic. But I think the Martells are more light skinned (Hispanic) than the populace at the capital

Martells are the middle-east type while Yronwoods are Caucasian.

sandy Dornishmen (brown), Salty Dornishmen (dark brown) and Stony Dornishmen (white).

[maxi90]

Yes this is exactly what she did. She believes she can wake (one of) the stone dragons on Dragonstone by burning someone with King's Blood alive.



Wtf? Talk about reaching. Yeah so Melisandre's leech magic totally kept the plot a secret!! Robb didn't run away because of the leech magic! Gotcha.

I know, right? The idea of magic being used to resolve a problem in a universe were magic is very real and by a person who has shown empirical evidence that indicates she can use it? Outrageous!

Also, stick to the spoiler tags please.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Melisandre's magic had nothing to do with the death of the Kings. All three of them were plots that had been in planning for some time. This is ridiculous that there is even a discussion to the contrary. Balon's death could POSSIBLY be chalked up to magic, but as no one was witness to it, and that it is not disputed that he actually fell off the bridge (whether murdered by the jealous Storm God, or simply "fell"). On Balon's death however, we have a seer who ALSO has a vision of his death, I don't have the text at hand, but it's pretty well implied that Euron had a faceless man kill him, or murdered him himself.

Why? Why is it ridiculous that people can draw different interpretations from a book when there is no explicit answer that it should be one way or the other? There are a lot of things we don´t know yet about how magic works in ASOIF, and what we do know is extremely vague.

We do have circumstancial evidence that the red priest might be saying the truth: all three kings dying in what had to be the span of a few months max, and all by three unrelated plots that were going on at the same time, is highly suspicious. Not impossible, but improbable. And then again, the interpretation that she only manipulated Stannis with her foreseeing habilities is entirely possible... except that there is a problem with that: the visions, as you and me have said before, are criptic and rely heavily on the interpretation of the summoner, and even when they are as clear as they can be there is no way to tell when the events shown will unfold. Melisandre had no clue of when the battle at the Fist of the First men would be taking place, so how did she know exactly when the three kings would die? Even if her visions did tell her, all she would have to go with are three disconected scenes of them dying in very different circumstances. If you have an explanation to that, please share it, be cause I actually had come to the same conclusion as you when I read the book.

And about Balon, the implication that he had been killed by Euron come from his other siblings, Victarion and crazy-monk-what´s-his-face, who freaking hate Euron´s guts and would probably blame him for the bad case of diarrhea they had that one time, if they could. So, yeah, not the most objective sources.

[mike^_^]

K

[Mangalore]

Well Jaime still negotiated with Roose I believe, and if I recall correctly he said something like "give Robb my regards", implying that he knew what was going to happen at the wedding (though reflecting on that now perhaps it was just Jaime's sense of humour). Also, the fact that Roose simply released him and said he had nothing to do with his maiming must've made it clear to Jaime that Bolton had switched sides. Anyway, the second point still stands, perhaps it doesn't change that much (we'll see in book 6), but I just liked the old line better



Well the hatred for one family member is often cast towards his/her entire family (as well as the other way around), look at how everyone despises Theon or Tyrion just for things other family members did/do. Jaime's lack of honour would be a disgrace to his family as well

I considered this line just Roose Bolton spreading the blame around and using Jaime's imfamy as the kingslayer. At that stage Jaime is merely a pawn used for bargaining and given his maiming not a very good one at that. Roose Bolton had to kill the entire Stark family and their vasalls to get the North behind him and like Tywin was concerned with having the blame of murder not tagged on himself but someone else. So for the lannisters it's important that the Freys and Boltons did it, for Bolton it's important to spread the blame around and get most of it on the Freys and the Freys are not the smartest of the bunch.

[Killerbee]

Well noone who heard what Bolton was supposed to live or tell it on so that doesn't really have anything to do with it I suppose. Also what's the point of the Lannister-Bolton alliance if Roose immediately backstabs the Lannisters by saying they were guilty ? Really, the ones who are held guilty for the act are the Freys, not so much the Boltons, so Roose's line was purely meant as a final mental blow for Robb and (even more so) for Cat