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Thread: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

  1. #1
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    I've started playing SS 6.4 recently, and everything is going fine, the mod is great. But there's one thing that caught my attention, and is being sort of annoying: why are general bodyguards (and cavalry in general) so overpowered? They just roll over anything. I lose a ridiculously high number of men when fighting them, and often I need more than 1 unit fighting them at once in order for them to lose. Normal cavalry is not so strong, but their charges still deal quite a punch (even to spearmen). Why?


  2. #2

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    Western European bodyguards got nerfed quite a bit in SS when compared to vanilla Medieval 2. Some of the eastern bodyguards in SS have ridiculous armor though.

    Cavalry are overpowered because they're supposed to be overpowered. That is balanced by the fact that you can upkeep 3-4 good infantry in place of one heavy cavalry.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    For upkeep of 60 feudal knights you can have 600 urban spear militias. Cavalry used to dominate battlefield at old times, but they become much easier to counter when halberts, pikes and guns show up.

    Protip: try getting enemy bodyguards to charge in some useless unit, then attack them with 2hander axemen. They are very effective in taking down heavy cavalry in early game.
    Last edited by Astarte; June 09, 2012 at 05:19 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    It's fairly historically accurate that bodyguard cavalry are so tough. They're the richest nobles of the land, they can afford the biggest, strongest, fastest horses, the toughest armour and shields and the finest spears and swords. They don't have to work and so can dedicate as much of their time as they like to mastering the art of mounted warfare and of all the people participating in battle (save for the king/general himself) they have the most to gain from acts of heroism and bravery. They'll be rewarded with lands and titles to add to the lands and titles they already possess, as opposed to the majority of the soldiers who'll be rewarded only with the right to go home and carry on farming for 21 hours a day so they can pay their tax to the local lord - most likely one of the general's bodyguards.

    In the time period that SS begins cavalry was king on the battlefield. That was the case for centuries before SS begins and for centuries after. Look at the Holy Roman Empire's wars with the pagan Wends. It was either king Henry or Otto, I forget, who defeated the Wends a few times with his army of mailed knights on horseback. Of course he didn't have quite so much success against the Saracens on Sicily, but that's Sicily for you - full of hills, no good for cavalry charges.

    I will admit though, some of the eastern bodyguard units are stupidly tough. The western ones seem to get cut to shreds by even simple spear units but the Seljuk, Faitimid or, worst of all, the Byzantine ones - they're absolute monsters. I stole Nicosia from the Byzantines when I was playing as the Fatimids, they only had a general in it with 30 bodyguards - he cut down 2 units of Saracen militia on the town square before I got him.

  5. #5
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
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    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    If you were a lord, wouldn't you want the people sworn to protect you to be the best?
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    At least Shogun 2 did the general bodyguard balance right.

    Tough and decent units, but make a mistake and you can still lose all of them in a blink of an eye ^^
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    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    I was mainly referring to the eastern bodyguards. I'm playing as England but carving an overseas empire in the Fatimid lands, so I get pissed when an unit of their bodyguard tramples my spearmen, and then is able to stand their ground in the middle of the spears.

    But I guess I can live with that.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by mindOverdrive View Post
    I was mainly referring to the eastern bodyguards. I'm playing as England but carving an overseas empire in the Fatimid lands, so I get pissed when an unit of their bodyguard tramples my spearmen, and then is able to stand their ground in the middle of the spears.

    But I guess I can live with that.
    The worst is when you lose 100 men or more trying to bring down the general and the bodyguards and when it gets down to two or three men they manage to wriggle out of a group of 500 spearmen and some cavalry and escape.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    The worst is when you lose 100 men or more trying to bring down the general and the bodyguards and when it gets down to two or three men they manage to wriggle out of a group of 500 spearmen and some cavalry and escape.
    Good for dramatic AARs though.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    Best initial step is to reduce default BG size, eg:

    soldier NE_Bodyguard, 8, 0, 1

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why are bodyguards so powerful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Best initial step is to reduce default BG size, eg:

    soldier NE_Bodyguard, 8, 0, 1
    As RC 2.0 does and I think it works well, also helps to slow heavy cavalry a tiny bit but I usually assume the BG have the best horses so they move .1 faster than equivalent heavy cavalry, so if other heavy cavalry move at .8 they move at .9 (just to make it a bit tougher to catch and kill the generals as well as being plausible as there are many stories where the general fled on a fast horse and jumped into river etc being one of the few to escape a lost battle). Smaller BG allow them to still influence battle and fight but not so often win a battle with just a couple BG.
    Last edited by Ichon; June 10, 2012 at 12:03 PM.

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