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Thread: CA Modding Summit

  1. #121
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Totalheadache View Post
    I will contribute to Darthvaders airfare but on one condition. He emails me a picture of him attending the said summit wearing a Darthvader outfit...(yes I do realise this might become unconformtable but it will keep safe his anonymity and also put the fear of the dark side into CA...plus if Mike Simspon a.k.a the emperor is there he will need to use a lot of the force).
    Lol! Where's the paypal account for this??!!!

    Well, if CA make things right, personal presence wouldn't be that important.
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  2. #122

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Boustrophedon View Post
    I think this might be a trap, an elaborate hoax to get rid of dissent haha

    1. Invite all disgruntled modders
    2. Lure them into the deepest cracks of Activision HQ
    3. Kill every dissenting modder
    4. ???
    5. PROFIT!
    LOL!! Those under-pants gnomes are everywhere!

    Yes, i agree with pec .. pesticide, as if a group hug will solve modding / DLC / User input / SEGA gutting issues. And who could get to HQ ? CA (ex)employees mostly.

    What's really needed is "TW sand box for dummies" but CA have already said we'll probably only get a battle map editor.

    What's the point?

    R
    oOo

    Rome 2 refugee ...

    oOo

  3. #123
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    One more time I'll raise my hat to CA - and one more time that is only symbolical, as I don't have one. Well, I'm very pleased with the active listening of TWC and all TW fans in general that CA has showed us lately.

    However, I'm damn sure that those people who have been complaining of the modding situation hardest won't bother to show up at the summit. Being from Finland I won't naturally attend myself, and that is also simply because I hardly do modding anymore.

    Also, I think the suggestion of Huberto is definitely a clever one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Huberto
    Of course it would be all inclusive, but it is also good for the community to organize itself before hand and try to get those who have the deepest understanding of warscape modding there, and have them play somewhat of a leadership role. It is a "summit" after all.
    I don't know if this kind of pre-organisation would be successful, though.

    Excellent job with all this, and the other great things you've done lately (including the map editor, although I still haven't tested it)!
    ~Goofy
    Last edited by Goofy; June 07, 2012 at 09:40 AM.

  4. #124
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    What I mean is that knowing why you did some things is not of paramount interest for us. But how you create campaign map for instance (so we understand your work process and have more information to design a way to make our own) is more interesting, how we can work around limitation or solve some issues which are hard to overcome without info from you, how we can avoid such situation in the future.
    Reposting this because imo it deserves more discussion.

    I agree some sort of document or list of topics and questions from those who are deep into modding Warscape should be developed and put in front of CA before the summit to help guide the conversation. Something substantive for CA to react to.

    I believe Steph offered to compile this. We should set up a thread somewhere and get going.

    This is necessary to have a reasonably organized, two-way discussion with CA. This is a great opportunity to advance the ball for modding TW games.

  5. #125

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by DARTH VADER View Post
    I am reading all these questions and questions and I get dizzy myself as a modder. I do not think this should be the purpose of this summit. To shoot with countless questions "How do I do this, How do I do that".
    Experienced modders already know the procedures of their specialty and if not, they know how to search the available information in this forum.
    I really do not remember many things if you ask me. Whenever I want to do something for my mod, I search, I test, I try and then I implement. I do not read manuals or foolproof info. True Modders are self taught.
    I believe there is need we modders ask some very vital things, for example we need to know the column names of the db tables or ask CA to open some files for modding, to make their games more customizable.
    In addition, CA could learn things from us modders about how to improve their games. For example I could give some basic advice in some values that are, in my opinion, very wrongly edited in all their games.

    Now, because I have received already PMs asking me to attend, I tell that I would very much like to participate in this summit, but this depends very much on the date it will be set and on the situation in Greece.
    Lets wait for some more official information.
    I am very much self taught, but even so I want to know what I asked because for me the issue ruins the naval campaign, I have asked to the most reputed modders I have tested several times several changes, complex changes involving several tables, and no answer or test result. I even asked it in the previous CA thread here in the general discussion subforum, but no answer then. That is why I am asking it again, for sure many modders have their questions to do, because what will be the summit for? to make questions and receive answers, no? And the summit results in knowledge are supposed to be published, I guess. Because organizing this event to keep the result secret to the ones assisting makes no sense.

    I would like any one assisting to take this question and make it to CA. HOW CAN WE MAKE AI REPAIR ITS SHIPS? of course if anyone reading this already knows, please let us know.
    Last edited by Bethencourt; June 07, 2012 at 11:13 AM.

  6. #126
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Indeed it's something Bethencourt, I would like that too. Probably it's has something to do with the hardcoded part of the AI. If that's the case then we can't do anything but wait for them to patch it...
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  7. #127
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by carricanta View Post
    Why? I wish to have a NTW or ETW moddeable like M2TW...too generic, too complicated an too long? maybe but if people can mod M2TW modders could make the same thing with Empire, isn´t it?
    Which is why I feel modders can better work with CA in developing future titles to be more moddable now rather than later. All the other points are important and should be brought up regarding ETW and Shogun but I think whoever meets with CA should also proach them with making the next title moddable. Maybe they could invest in a campaign editor now? I think they will be working with the warscape engine for another couple years.




    Darth Vader sounds like a natural leader. I nominate him to lead this summit as the most experience modder. And Vader I think the situation in greece will always be the same so no worries right?
    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; June 07, 2012 at 11:37 AM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Maybe is hardcoded, which really means "only CA can solve it", so lets see what they have to say about it and let's ask them to solve it if that is the case. After the past issue about no naval invasions I find this the most irritating thing related to naval part of the game, which really was(naval part of the game I mean) one of the main new features of warscape engine.

  9. #129

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    This is an open e-mail send by me to CraigTW:

    Dear Sir,

    I was very pleased with CA’s intention to officially meet modders live or/and virtually. I would like to express some thoughts about this move of CA. I do not want to be engaged in a conversation about CA’s modding policy, there are already countless of threads around about it, though, I am afraid, some references on this issue are rather inevitable.

    Total War modding community is one of the largest and most skillful in PC games. We have succeeded so many in improving the TW series games, with so little help from CA, while facing an increased scale of limitations in every new release. Moves like this you are planning, not only should be strongly encouraged, buy they also should be continued regularly in the future, at least once in every new game release. However, if you want this meeting to be productive, it must be well prepared, with a sincere declaration of intentions and using only the language of truth.

    I think, you (= CA) have to fully clarify your position about TW series games modding. It is your right to support or not modding. But you have to make it clear what you mean by that and your sayings must always be backed up by your actions. Else “misinformation” is easy to be appeared when regularly official CA statements with intentions about modding improvements, hard efforts to make games friendly, etc. fly in the air, and remain desperately far from corresponding actions and reality. Then, you should prepare this meeting with care. First time is always hard, but I think you could do better than “Maybe we'll hire a venue somewhere”. Also you have to be clarified and straight in your intentions. Sayings like “why limitations are in place if they exist” or “help if there's any way we can” create rather a blurred context than a clear discussion base. I think you know if there are limitations else you could not be able to explain why there “are in place” as you intent to. You also know the ways you can help us.

    Let’s be honest: you follow the forums and you know what modders feel about you and the unfilled expectations we have from you. CA is an innovative and a top company in strategy PC games, with a corresponding great community. But they are lacking the relation they deserve. Most of all, this meeting should be a sincere attempt of restoring the trust between the two sides which has been seriously damaged. Being honest, I have to say that I remain very skeptical about this meeting.

    The initiative is yours. There is an excellent opportunity here to show in action your true intentions. Be generous and the benefits will be multiply for both sides. Use just marketing tips and the gap will become wider, more and more...

    Sincerely yours,

    HusserlTW




  10. #130
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigTW View Post
    Hi all,

    Just a quick note to say thanks for all of the emails I've had so far. I'm out of the office until Monday so I'll reply to them when I'm back in, but it's great to see so much passion about this kind of event.

    We've been talking about having a line of conversation with modders for quite some time, and it takes time for things to come to fruition, but there's no shady motivation behind it - just a desire to have the conversations.

    Just to be clear on expectations: this is an opportunity for us to explain to you why things are how they are and get some key modders a glimpse into how we do things, and why we do them the way we do. That information will be useful, no doubt.

    Anyway, I'll flesh out some of the details in the next couple of weeks once we've sorted logistics etc. I should have more answers for you then.

    Craig
    Thanks for the post craig...

    this pretty much makes it clear that CA will be showing those who attend how they make the game... how the map is designed most importantly. So to those working on the ETW map you might get to see exactly how the map is done in CA studios. This would be well worth it for sure.

  11. #131
    r3deed's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    I fear this conference purpose is to clarify why they can't support the community mods either by clerifying the policies of the company or any by going through their legal notice regarding the limitation of releasing free content.
    Last edited by r3deed; June 07, 2012 at 11:50 AM.

  12. #132

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Which is why I feel modders can better work with CA in developing future titles to be more moddable now rather than later. All the other points are important and should be brought up regarding ETW and Shogun but I think whoever meets with CA should also proach them with making the next title moddable. Maybe they could invest in a campaign editor now? I think they will be working with the warscape engine for another couple years.




    Darth Vader sounds like a natural leader. I nominate him to lead this summit as the most experience modder. And Vader I think the situation in greece will always be the same so no worries right?
    Modders can't work with CA to make future titles more moddable as it is a programmer's issue, not one pertaining to designers/game balancers. And no offence to DV, but all of his experience modding isn't worth a damn when it comes to changing game design methods in order to facilitate more third party editing. Again, no offence intended to DV, but I'd view him as the least suitable to any sort of leadership role, as his experience rarely revolves around solving file formats (I mean on a much lower level than DB column headers).

    What we need are people who are going to make the tools to ask questions, not people who only know how to use the tools. Entrusting the creators of popular mods with a lot of responsibility will get us nowhere; it is the people working behind the scenes (that many mod fans aren't aware of I may add) that need to take on the leadership roles.
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  13. #133
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by T.C. View Post
    Modders can't work with CA to make future titles more moddable as it is a programmer's issue, not one pertaining to designers/game balancers. And no offence to DV, but all of his experience modding isn't worth a damn when it comes to changing game design methods in order to facilitate more third party editing. Again, no offence intended to DV, but I'd view him as the least suitable to any sort of leadership role, as his experience rarely revolves around solving file formats (I mean on a much lower level than DB column headers).

    What we need are people who are going to make the tools to ask questions, not people who only know how to use the tools. Entrusting the creators of popular mods with a lot of responsibility will get us nowhere; it is the people working behind the scenes (that many mod fans aren't aware of I may add) that need to take on the leadership roles.
    ^ this, It's people who are making the tools that need to get a look into stuff with CA. People like TAW and others that actually make the tools for others to use.

    Edit: However that doesn't mean people like DV shouldn't go, we need questions asked, like Bethencourt says, no matter who is asking them ...
    Last edited by Falconpilot; June 07, 2012 at 11:59 AM.

  14. #134

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    I think any question should be able to be made as far as it is useful and not solved by the comunity no matter the person asking it.

    I think getting less elitist will be in favor of the community
    Last edited by Bethencourt; June 07, 2012 at 12:02 PM.

  15. #135

    Default Re: CA modding summit

    I actually think new engine that's better optimised and doesnt have "lag" (ok that can happen due to weak cpu+gpu etc) should be no.1 priority for total wars.

    More than mods sorry. After this has been done (yes I realise a new engine costs a lot but other games series like bf3 etc get one) I'd like modders to be more heavily involved in a new engine.

    I'd settle for a reworking of the warscape as I dont think it's inherently bad (cept for breakdancing corpses and other such gems).

    And if it's Sega who arent investing enough CA should look to join another of the big boys.

    Yes I realise the above is tricky but that's my current take on the most pressing issues.

    The other most pressing issue is still for me a lack of units and was dissapointed in the latest dlc not offering more...

    Atm am not playing Fots because whilst I love Darths mod I want some extra units but cant run Radious+Darth at the same time..

    So Total war for me is on hold till either something changes re the engine and/or extra units/mods.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Yes people! keep it coming! And yes, it was a blatantly obvious mistake I made forgetting about Radious! I hope he doesn't get mad at me. I'm sending him the message right know. Also one for Mech_donald!
    Later on CA news: All TWCenter modders are fired from their mission! Too much conflict between CA and modders

  17. #137
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Bethencourt View Post
    HOW CAN WE MAKE AI REPAIR ITS SHIPS? of course if anyone reading this already knows, please let us know.
    Download DMUC beta 8 update 32.
    Play it.

    Who should go:Anyone that can go. Even if your modding experience is small, the more people there, the more important CA will deem modding to be.
    Holding a summit with 12 people present and 25 online won't hold as much weight design-wise for CA as a summit with 60 people present and 250 online.

    Modders of very popular mods (like Darth Vader, KK etc) or that make tools (like Taw, alpaca, etc) or that work to resolve the campaign map (like Pietromicca etc) should be there, as their questions, see what can be done and meet the other side.
    A host of other modders, all that can go should be there too, to give voice to the small mods and show the importance of modding.
    Last edited by alhoon; June 07, 2012 at 03:25 PM.
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  18. #138
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by T.C. View Post
    What we need are people who are going to make the tools to ask questions, not people who only know how to use the tools. Entrusting the creators of popular mods with a lot of responsibility will get us nowhere; it is the people working behind the scenes (that many mod fans aren't aware of I may add) that need to take on the leadership roles.
    On the other hand, CA may genuinly be of the opinion it's not really feasible to proceed without a better perspective of their modus operandi. If they are of the opinion we don't know which questions are worth asking, should we presume to know better?
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  19. #139
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Download DMUC beta 8 update 32.
    Play it.
    Darth Mod Ultimate Commander? Didn't know it worked on Shogun 2
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  20. #140
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    Default Re: CA modding summit

    Quote Originally Posted by T.C. View Post
    Modders can't work with CA to make future titles more moddable as it is a programmer's issue, not one pertaining to designers/game balancers. And no offence to DV, but all of his experience modding isn't worth a damn when it comes to changing game design methods in order to facilitate more third party editing. Again, no offence intended to DV, but I'd view him as the least suitable to any sort of leadership role, as his experience rarely revolves around solving file formats (I mean on a much lower level than DB column headers).

    What we need are people who are going to make the tools to ask questions, not people who only know how to use the tools. Entrusting the creators of popular mods with a lot of responsibility will get us nowhere; it is the people working behind the scenes (that many mod fans aren't aware of I may add) that need to take on the leadership roles.
    This needs to be posted, re-posted and re-posted again every time someone posts saying Darth Vader, Radious or any other of the common modding names get said should go to a modding summit.

    About 0.01% of Artifex's on this website know what needs to be known to advance modding beyond where it is given CA help, and I'm almost entirely sure none of them will be spending a large sum of money to come to the UK to go to this.

    I can only begin to cringe at the image of this being hosted to the masses of the internet on something like Skype too, the amount of questions being asked about topics that are either already answered or questions that are inevitably retarded would be unparalleled.

    If CA's intentions are to advance modding beyond where it is, they need not go through the hassle of this, they just need to have a few conversations with a handful of people, or do it themselves.

    Alas if anything this summit would be an answer as to why modding is getting limited and not a solution to it. People need to stop having wild delusions about this modding business and CA, this is a multi-million dollar company with a publisher who is one of the biggest names in the business, these people know what is required to make this game or any of their future ones moddable to us, and it's not in talking to a minority of their fan base in the modders housed here.

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