CA modding summit

[T.C.]

unit evolution system : ETW propose a system to replace units depending of government, such system could be useful, if linked to technology instead of government, to create a reform system that replace old units with new ones. But this means to change things that are hardcoded.

I could write a script to do most of that in a few hours. Probably not something that needs to be asked, given that they can't, and won't change hardcoded aspects (i.e., the bits we can't script for) of previous games.

[MathiasOfAthens]

The list is merely to select someone willing to speak for the team. Everyone will be included and welcome to go...

[windsupernova]

Will you broadcast the summit?

Would be pretty interesting to see it.

[Huberto]

Why do you need lists of people anyway? I'm pretty sure any sensible modding summit would be all inclusive...

Of course it would be all inclusive, but it is also good for the community to organize itself before hand and try to get those who have the deepest understanding of warscape modding there, and have them play somewhat of a leadership role. It is a "summit" after all.

[KaiserJoe]

I think it goes without saying that DARTH VADER should definitely be in attendance, no matter what.

And thank's for this Craig, this is a great idea.

Also, King Kong should be there.

[Radzeer]

Of course it would be all inclusive, but it is also good for the community to organize itself before hand and try to get those who have the deepest understanding of warscape modding there, and have them play somewhat of a leadership role. It is a "summit" after all.

This x 100.

What CA is planning to do is sort of unexpected, so this is the chance for the community to rise to the challenge. You modder guys should open a thread somewhere to come up with a coordinated list of major issues either by engine or genre.

[wis]

Also any of the best modders we have are in need of financial aid to go, we could set up some kind of money donation page?

[betto]

I doubt that this would be done but... If the old games are in the table would be possible open part of the code of the engine that deal with battle ai and campaing ai with rules like civilization 4 modding .And end with that hardcoded limits like the 20 units .

[weirdoascensor]

An Interesting Turn of Event...

...wonder what make CA do such thing like this, don't you think, hmm?

[Hazbones]

I would definitely love to see TAW and all the others currently working on the ETW World project go to this summit along with the creators of the various tools that we already use.

If these guys had all their questions answered and the full backing of CA, THEY would be the ones to make the tools we would eventually be using, not CA. Craig already said they are just there to help, not do the work for us.

[wangrin]

I could write a script to do most of that in a few hours. Probably not something that needs to be asked, given that they can't, and won't change hardcoded aspects (i.e., the bits we can't script for) of previous games.

We have already work on a system based on technology.
When a certain technology (army reform) is reached, new units become available to recruitment and old ones become unavailable.

The problem is that replacing old unit with new one need to write in .esf file (replacing the old unit name with the new one).
I suppose this is how the system work when the game replace monarchy units with republican ones.

When I ask CraigTW about it, he said that the function was hardcoded in the game engine.

I mention this simply because we have had the problem and this functionality is the kind of thing that should have not be hardcoded.

[Steph]

We need to know more about the form the summit will use.
It can be :

1) a kind of show from CA where they just explain what they did and why (not very interesting for us, but way for them to releave some pressure and let us know why it's useless to complain or ask for some of our requests)

2) a place where we just exchange ideas and request, they note them, and we don't really have answers

3) an occasion to actually meet CA "expert" and get detailed answers

But I'm afraid if there are too many modders with too many questions, it could get messy and perhaps not very efficient. We may get lost in the questions and not really get answers.

So perhaps a kind of mix of everything, with some preparation work.

Every modder, especially if they plan to attend, could prepare a document (Excel, Word, whatever is more convenient for CA), listing all his demands , request, suggestions, questions.

The document could then be centralized (either by CA, or by the commmunity, I can do that if you want, I did the same some years ago for Civilization III), sorted and organized in big topics.

If we can get this done by the end of June, CA will have a 2-3 weeks to browse through it, and start preparing answers.

Then we could have a kind of general welcome speech by CA, and then perhaps instead of a big show with all the questions, followed by everyone at the same time, we could have small "workshops", focused on a specific game or topic.
CA can send the list of workshops with time schedule and team members, and then each modder can "register" to the workshops he wants to attend.

At the end of the summit, we can gather the notes from each modder/team member in each workshop and compile them.


@Craig: if you think I can help with some organization (request gathering and organization), and other modders like the idea, don't hesitate to drop me an email.
I can be a pain in the most fleshy part of your anatomy with my continous request for a better campaign map, but if I can help, I will.

[LestaT]

From what I know modders always get invited prior to release of new game and I remembered something like this happened prior to release of Med2 and ETW (IIRC). However this seems much on larger scale than previously.

[carricanta]

Exactly what we should not ask. Too generic, too complicated and too long. We would receive an easily expected answer.

Why? I wish to have a NTW or ETW moddeable like M2TW...too generic, too complicated an too long? maybe but if people can mod M2TW modders could make the same thing with Empire, isnīt it?

[Steph]

Why? I wish to have a NTW or ETW moddeable like M2TW...too generic, too complicated an too long? maybe but if people can mod M2TW modders could make the same thing with Empire, isnīt it?

No. I have a bike, and a car. I can easily change the chain of my bike. Therefore I want to be able to change the motor of my car as easily... But it's no simple.

Same thing here. The bike and the car both can be used to go somewhere, but the mechanism is different, and it's not because you can do something with one you can do the same with the others.

The internal mechanism in ETW is very different from M2TW. And so it's not because you could do something with M2TW that you can do the same with ETW. You can regret that, but it won't change this fact.

[DARTH VADER]

I am reading all these questions and questions and I get dizzy myself as a modder. I do not think this should be the purpose of this summit. To shoot with countless questions "How do I do this, How do I do that".
Experienced modders already know the procedures of their specialty and if not, they know how to search the available information in this forum.
I really do not remember many things if you ask me. Whenever I want to do something for my mod, I search, I test, I try and then I implement. I do not read manuals or foolproof info. True Modders are self taught.
I believe there is need we modders ask some very vital things, for example we need to know the column names of the db tables or ask CA to open some files for modding, to make their games more customizable.
In addition, CA could learn things from us modders about how to improve their games. For example I could give some basic advice in some values that are, in my opinion, very wrongly edited in all their games.

Now, because I have received already PMs asking me to attend, I tell that I would very much like to participate in this summit, but this depends very much on the date it will be set and on the situation in Greece.
Lets wait for some more official information.

[Steph]

We may be all self taught, but we still hit some walls sometimes with things which are apparently not working. Either because it is hardcoded, or because the info is hidden somewhere.

Getting answers from CA would help.

It doesn't necesarilly have to be during the summit, but we'd need to reactivate something like the "ask CA" thread where they answered question about the DB.

[carricanta]

No. I have a bike, and a car. I can easily change the chain of my bike. Therefore I want to be able to change the motor of my car as easily... But it's no simple.

Same thing here. The bike and the car both can be used to go somewhere, but the mechanism is different, and it's not because you can do something with one you can do the same with the others.

The internal mechanism in ETW is very different from M2TW. And so it's not because you could do something with M2TW that you can do the same with ETW. You can regret that, but it won't change this fact.

Ok. I understand it... but, Are there tools to make it easy? i suppose it Pietro Micca is a great searcher with the ETW map modding, but i think the things can be easy or difficult if you have or no have the right tools like the last tool for Shogun 2.
Anyway i am only an ignorant about this bussines and is only my poor oppinion

[Pesticide]

am i the only one wondering why they just dont do this with a video conference via skype that costs zero dollars ? what are you guys thinking, looks to me your stuck in the 80ties where people jumped on planes for 'meetings' :o

All that wasted money into plane tickets, venue, hotel ... , seriously ... all should be put back into the game and the modders ffs who already spent YEARS working on mods that increased CA sales ...

and confidentiality is no argument anymore these days, thats what you have an NDA for

[Steph]

Ok. I understand it... but, Are there tools to make it easy? i suppose it Pietro Micca is a great searcher with the ETW map modding, but i think the things can be easy or difficult if you have or no have the right tools like the last tool for Shogun 2.
Anyway i am only an ignorant about this bussines and is only my poor oppinion

The main difficulty is not in the tools themselves, it's in understanding what CA did in the format, and what are the interaction between the elements.
I'll give you an example. Years ago I had to retro engineer a binary files to decode all the information inside.
To do that, usually you have the end result, with some information, and then you try to find it in the fie.
For example, if you know the file contains a name, and when you look at the result in your game, you see the name is "Steph", you can try to find in the binary file where "Steph" is located. Then you say "this part is the name". Then, you find other parts, until you can decode the whole file.
But sometimes it's not obvious. In my case I knew there was a date somewhere. But I couldn't find it in the file.
After soome times, we finally found the date was coded with two information: The number of seconds since the beginning of the weeks, and the number of weeks since the 6 january 1969 (or something like that).
Once you know it making a tool that read this two pieces of information and display them as easy to understand date is easy.
But if you don't know the way it is coded internally, it can be very difficult and time consuming.

Making a campaign map tools for instance is difficult because we don't really know how CA stores the information internally. If CA can give a description of their format (like the borders are described here, that way, then the rivers are here, etc), with enough details, then I have no doubt we could make a complete tool for it.

But without info from CA, finding all the informaiton is extremley long. Especially as some information are redundant, or not obvious. If you change a value somewhere (like set the "can convert" flag to true for an agent in the campaign), it won't work. Because a far less obvious value also needs to be changed somewhere else.