I'm putting together an agenda for the summit this week, which I'll post in this thread. That will hopefully give you a better idea of what we're planning. After that, we'll start talking about invitations and numbers.
I'm putting together an agenda for the summit this week, which I'll post in this thread. That will hopefully give you a better idea of what we're planning. After that, we'll start talking about invitations and numbers.
I don't think they can afford that Steph.
Craig: Please give an update on whether we could have skype participation or something.
alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
"Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).
Is this an admission that DLCs have failed? and CA / SEGA are now seriously looking @ mods? (where as before it was off the agenda)
Lets take a step back, take a look at the big picture, to see what we're missing -
What does everyone want ?
Sega - Max profits / less costs
CA - quality product
users - quality addictive fun to play game
DLCs were tried to add contact @ a cost but is that working ?
so with the above needs and results, I still think the next TW should be a Sand box. No need for CA / SEGA to waste money on developing content, let the users do that on their own time and expense. Sega can charge for the sandbox and take a commission on all mods created. (not sure legal aspects here). Users get what they want, CA would get a number of quality products (as previous mods show) and Sega gets their low cost / high profits.
.. and as to having a pow-wow to show modders how 2 mod TW? as if modders will remember what is shown, unless hard-copies are provided - but will that require signed EUAs ? if not, then why not just post them on web site somewhere ?
R
oOo
Rome 2 refugee ...
oOo
DLC's haven't failed, the purpose of DLC's was to keep a revenue stream going so that games can be supported for a longer period post-release. Juts look at how many patches Shogun 2 got compared to Rome or Medieval 2 (granted most of them are smaller). And don't play the "poor quality on release day" card, Shogun 2 is a far more complex program than any of the previous games.
It's about time people started looking at the DLC situation with a bit of common business sense. CA are a company with (last I checked) around 100 employees. Not some group of freelance artists that spend their time thinking of ways to rip the customer off.
The bottom line is any extra sales generated by even the most popular mods wouldn't pay the wages of even one employee.
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there.- Josh Billings
My Tools, Tutorials and Resources
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.- George Orwell
I'm not against DLC, on the opposite. I am for more DLC. As long as they are good contents.
(Ex for NTW: Peninsular DLC = good. But latest "pre order" clan DLC = bad).
Actually I think CA is not exploiting DLC enough, and there would still be some good opportunities for ETW/NTW DLC if they made it right (new maps, perhaps correction of a few bugs, or a few bonus features).
I think it's a shame they switch to fast to a new game and completly abandon the previous ones that could still generate more profits.
Well, I'll forgive them if they take the opportunity of the summit to announce NTW2, with moddable campaign maps. And all my request added of course. And fully compatible with MoE so I don't have to start the mod again. See how reasonnable I am?
What does it have to do with anything? If it's more complex, than maybe it should be developed longer? Would you take such excuse when buying a car for example?
But I understand that there is a business plan behind it, and all this: game, or major expansion released every year, DLCs etc. I understand that every company has to make a profit and pay their employees.
The truth is, that as things are right now, when buying TW game on release day, you are supporting beta version, hoping that sales and DLC will pay for patching it to finished product.
CIVITATVS CVM AVGVSTVS XVI, MMVIIN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites SVB MareNostrum SVB Quintus Maximus
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Then I assume you were one of the happy ones buying 4 X £5 DLCs that consist of skins and different start positions. Good for you. If you`re looking for a job with CA`s marketing department then apply there.
But don`t **** on us and tell us it`s raining.
I`m a freelance artist by the way, and I don`t rip my customers off- Ever. But for you I can sell a large black and white painting of one of your favourite TW factions then miss out the soldiers and colour until you pay me £10 for each before I paint them in to complete your picture.
Last edited by Radzeer; June 11, 2012 at 02:54 PM.
No, I wasn't. Even if I owned the game I most likely wouldn't have. I don't agree with DLC that unlocks pre-packaged content (in fact, I'm fairly sure that's illegal) I'm just making the point that DLC as a whole, is necessary for the TW series to continue as it is. I'd like to hear your ideas on how a niche studio can continue to patch games 15 months after they're released. And don't come down on me with the argument that they shouldn't need to be patched. Speaking as a programmer I can say that that argument is bull.
Last edited by Radzeer; June 11, 2012 at 02:56 PM. Reason: continuity
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there.- Josh Billings
My Tools, Tutorials and Resources
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.- George Orwell
What a ridiculous thing to say. There have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of extra sales of TW games because of mods. At an average take of $15 per copy, and conservatively assuming 10,000 sales that's $150,000, which easily covers cost of one employee. The actual take and number of games sold due to mods is probably much higher.
How much of this summit will be dedicated to the world domination by CA, cause its a'bout time...
Well anything is more important then modding
I samo dotle, do tog kamena,do tog bedema,
Nogom ces stupit, mozda poganom,drznes li dalje?...Cuces gromove
Kako tisinu zemlje slobodne...Sa grmljavinom strasnom kidaju;
Razumeces ih srcem strasljivim...Sta ti sa smelim glasom govore,
Pa ces o stenja tvrdom kamenu
Brijane glave teme celavo
U zanosnome strahu lupati...
Al' jedan izraz, jednu misao,
Čućeš u borbe strašnoj lomljavi:
"Otadžbina je ovo Srbina!..."
10,000 sales solely because of mods (ie people who bought the game in order to get a specific mod)? I doubt it. Although mod users would be in the hundreds of thousands, most would probably have bought it regardless of any mods. TWC doesn't accurately reflect the TW fan population. A disproportionately high number of users here are modding orientated. Not to say that's a bad thing
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there.- Josh Billings
My Tools, Tutorials and Resources
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.- George Orwell
PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there.- Josh Billings
My Tools, Tutorials and Resources
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.- George Orwell
Nah, me neither, but the number is not marginal either. In either case I was just trowing a fact there.
Carry on gentlemen.
PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.
I can sense the bitterness of some members here. Apparently many refer to me, directly or indirectly, mostly positively (apparently those who enjoy my work) and some negatively (maybe because of their jealousy or maybe because they want to shake CA in any way?).
Although I am got used to this, I always get sad when I read that kind of comments.
I believe that Mods are the soul of TWCenter and Total War games and I would expect those claiming that are the "forgotten tool makers" to support them and not to degrade the overall modding work.
Because I read some theories, please allow me to provide my own mod statistics, which you can interpret as you like.
DarthMod Empire
moddb.com/mods/darthmod-empire (More than 450.000 unique downloads from 22/3/2009 to 27/3/2012)
DarthMod: Shogun II
moddb.com/mods/darthmod-shogun-2 (More than 150.000 unique downloads from 25/3/2011 to 27/3/2012)
DarthMod Napoleon
moddb.com/mods/darthmod-napoleon (More than 22.000 unique downloads from 02/12/2011 to 27/3/2012)
The mods have multiple download hosts or torrent links which cannot be easily calculated (Also many older versions have been deleted and have not been counted to the results).
Fact 1
TWCenter is the MIRROR of CA's customer base. A site with nearly 160.000 members and a ratio member/guest of approximately 1:5 one can roundly assume that at least 800.000 unique visitors came to this site to read information about their beloved game or post about it. Even if we count only the active members (appprox. 7.500) this number gives about 35.000 people who tend to visit the site daily, and all these are potential customers and a very good statistic sample, a perfect statistic sample for CA to understand the needs of their whole customer base. Election polls give more accurate reports with much fewer samples... how one can neglect so many people?
These people not only represent themselves but their friends and co-players who share information with each other. TWCenter is one of the biggest forums and possibly one of the best game fan sites due to the professionalism of the admins. You go to other forums and you get sick by the swearing and the uncontrollable members.
Fact 2
All these thousands of downloads of mods, popular mods like mine, less popular or more popular mods, all these add value to the game. How much value is not easily calculated but none should underestimate it. Talking about myself, I cannot count how many messages I got and still get by people saying that they bought the game because of my mod or they would have been bored of the game if they did not play DarthMod. Is it a coincidence that Empire: Total War sales are increased instead of lowered per year as it happens for any common game? A game that had so much bad criticism still selling in 2012? How about Third Age: Total War, a fantastic mod made by a very good team of modders. Did this not add at all to the value of Medieval 2: Total War game? So many mods, giving options to players around the world to change the flavour of their game are a bless for the developers who can also take ideas from all the floating feedback generated at the forums.
Fact 3
This move of CA feels and should be a very positive move and it is not good to prematurely diminish it or to try to take advantage of it in order to raise or lower the competitiveness level of another modder/tool maker/person of unknown skill level. I strongly believe that all the users/modders of this site should unite with good will in order to show that we, here at TWCenter, love Total War games, we want them to be better, we can help, and we can collaborate. After all, modding is full of collaboration. It is not only one man's work, as game development is. I have used mod tools made by people I have collaborated and given credit to, and undoubtedly without them I could not mod. Tool makers have been helped by me and other modders and without all of us they could never make the tools. It is very selfish to try to distinguish yourself while no one here in this forum has tried to put you to the margin, at least those who you refer to.
The state of DLC in this industry is rediculous. while there are some exceptions (FotS, N:TW pen campaign) but many other times its just upsetting. blood pack? really? why are a couple of new animations and blood decals worth asking people for money? same with unit packs. i want a finished product when i buy it, not something lacking all the facits of what you guys have imagined. i know your capable of a lot. all im sayin.
as for modding, i dont understand the issue at hand, really havn't looked into it. but what i do know is that your games are made better by the work of these people. you provide them a solid base, and they will make your game damn near immortal. ive bought 4 copies of rome total war, and given 3 of them to friends so that they can enjoy not only rome, but the copy of Europa Barbarorum i gave them. its 2012! rome is still awesome, all your games are. shogun was great off the bat, and FotS is freakin brilliant. darthshogun made it better. because of Darth_Vader i purchased Empire....and shogun....and napolean. my 2 cents.
I mentioned you, Darth Vader, by name earlier in this thread so I'll make a quick reply.
My point was simply that this event may only happen once, and may only last a few hours. In that event, I believe it serves the community better if tool makers, rather than tool users get the most questions asked and answered. That's not to say I wouldn't want anyone to be there or to ask questions; it's not my place to even suggest that. But my ambition from this event would be that modders come away with improved tools, or more information on file formats. Not that an afternoon in July is spent explaining to people why a map editor will never happen, or why binary formats were chosen over text based formats since ETW.
Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there.- Josh Billings
My Tools, Tutorials and Resources
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.- George Orwell
keep in mind ca's overlord Sega feels that the tw games offered borderline to much content, anything over 50 playtime hours was for them strange, why make a 100 gameplay hour game when you can sell 2 50 hour games.
source: http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/16...ss_.php?page=4
"I've had conversations with people at Sega who almost feel like we're doing too much -- that there's too much content there. Sometimes a publisher will go, "Ehh, there's 100 hours of gameplay for 40 bucks; maybe that's not the best way to do it." It absolutely is; it's just one of the things that we can do."
Now how to mix budgets and support for mods with that vision of the publisher, i think is impossible and a major driver with the lack of mod support in the warscape engine. I hope to be proven wrong at this summit, a summit that in my mind should have happened after empire's release, not shogun 2 expansion release