Who Should Sit the Iron Throne? (ADWD spoiler)

[smoesville]

The idea that once you have commited a bad deed you will never be forgiven encourages people to keep doing these bad deeds as there punishment will still be the same whether they repent or continue.

This isn't true at all, the punishment would only be the same if the law stated that it was, such as death for murder etc. Davos had some fingers removed for smuggling, you're right, no matter when he admitted to it, he would still have lost the fingers.

Also, truth be told, i would prefer to see Rickon grow to manhood and reclaim the title King in the North than any other lord being king.

[Gandalf.]

Indeed. Or Sansa having a child with some uber badass like Tyrion.

[smoesville]

It's likely way out of the scope of the books or it'll never end.

[Pinkie Pie]

his philosophy is a good one in theory, in practice it is terrible and is the very reason so many people did not follow him and instead chose Renly. he needs to learn that things are not black and white and instead that everyone is capable of evil and good, if he knew that then he has the potential to be a fantastic king, but he refuses to accept this and that is why he will never be a good king in my eyes. the idea that once you have commited a bad deed you will never be forgiven incourages people to keep doing these bad deeds as there punishment will still be the same whether they repent or continue.

In my eyes it makes it more likely people will stop the crimes knowing that no matter what they do after they will still be punished.

[Gandalf.]

Instead getting an honest living and career.

[Stannis Baratheon]

there are so many stannis fan boys

the smallfolk would live better under renly because he does not want to see them suffer, whereas stannis has shown no desire to help them and instead wants what is his not to help others but because it is his, he dosnt understand that ruling is not a right it is a duty. stannis has show no skills for making money and i cant see how the treasury would go up, people like littlefinger would not want to serve him as they certainly would not be able to profit under his rule as much as others. robert and renly are similar, but not the same.

Most of Stannis fanboys can be found here i think. On other forums people mostly spit on him, give me a break. Better to be Stannis than Dany or Robb fanboy!

I don't think Renly would "care" much for the smallfolk, i think no one ruling territory as big as king's really can... have we seen any king do it?(except Dany... and see how that went). For money, it would be more than enough not to be lavish and extravagant(which Renly certainly is) and have a good Hand(which could also care for the people, which Davos definitely does). And Stannis himself said (in SOS) that it is his duty being a king. And do you really think that Renly would care or believe that the Others are coming and prepare for it? Even Tyrion didn't. Robert and Renly aren't same, but i could very easy see Renly becoming Robert the Second. He would probably end up same with Loras as Jaime with Cersei(not being able to have normal relationship with him).

[kiwibloke]

Most of Stannis fanboys can be found here i think. On other forums people mostly spit on him, give me a break. Better to be Stannis than Dany or Robb fanboy!

I don't think Renly would "care" much for the smallfolk, i think no one ruling territory as big as king's really can... have we seen any king do it?(except Dany... and see how that went). For money, it would be more than enough not to be lavish and extravagant(which Renly certainly is) and have a good Hand(which could also care for the people, which Davos definitely does). And Stannis himself said (in SOS) that it is his duty being a king. And do you really think that Renly would care or believe that the Others are coming and prepare for it? Even Tyrion didn't. Robert and Renly aren't same, but i could very easy see Renly becoming Robert the Second. He would probably end up same with Loras as Jaime with Cersei(not being able to have normal relationship with him).

stannis dosn't believe in the others, melisandre does and he wants her power so he goes along with it. also stannis did not say it was his duty, when davos asked him why did he want the throne he said it was his, it did not matter whether he wants it or not. that to me does not make it his duty it shows that he thinks it is his right. also renly has expressed a care for the people, definetly more so then stannis.

[Skizbot]

stannis dosn't believe in the others, melisandre does and he wants her power so he goes along with it. also stannis did not say it was his duty, when davos asked him why did he want the throne he said it was his, it did not matter whether he wants it or not. that to me does not make it his duty it shows that he thinks it is his right. also renly has expressed a care for the people, definetly more so then stannis.

“Words. Words are wind. Why do you think I abandoned Dragonstone and sailed to the Wall, Lord Snow?”

“I am no lord, sire. You came because we sent for you, I hope. Though I could not say why you took so long about it.”

Surprisingly, Stannis smiled at that. “You’re bold enough to be a Stark. Yes, I should have come sooner. If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.” Stannis pointed north. “There is where I’ll find the foe that I was born to fight.””

Stannis and Jon standing on the Wall in ASOS.

[Count Roger Borsa]

Dolorous Edd Tollett deserves to rule the whole world, not just Westeros on the Iron Throne, but the whole world!

"I had a frightening dream last night, m’lord,” Dolorous Edd confessed. “You were my steward, fetching my food and cleaning up my leavings. I was lord commander, with never a moment’s peace."

[kiwibloke]

Words. Words are wind. Why do you think I abandoned Dragonstone and sailed to the Wall, Lord Snow?”

“I am no lord, sire. You came because we sent for you, I hope. Though I could not say why you took so long about it.”

Surprisingly, Stannis smiled at that. “You’re bold enough to be a Stark. Yes, I should have come sooner. If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.” Stannis pointed north. “There is where I’ll find the foe that I was born to fight.””

Davos is certainly a good influence , and i suppose stannis towards the end of the books starts to lose his stuborness and is showing skills that would make him a good king. then again anyone with davos (assuming they listen) would be a good king, so i vote for Davos!

[Skizbot]

But would anyone besides Stannis have made a former smuggler the Hand of the King? I can't see Renly doing that.

By the way, I'm not denying that Renly had some good characteristics, but do you remember where in the books it is shown that Renly truly cared about the smallfolk and would have been good for them? I only remember hearing that from TV Renly, who was almost a completely different character.

[Prophet1331]

I'm still reluctant to pledge my loyalty to a king who will punish me for saving his life in an illegal way....

[SinSolis]

Hiya, I’m new to forums….well new to posting, I lurked for a little while. This probably isn’t the greatest thread to start in but might as well just dive right in and give my two cents.

Everyone in the books has weaknesses and strengths:

Robert Baratheon: Good commander, knew how to inspire men, commanded loyalty from his friends, but he wasn’t a good king. He started a war to win back the love of his life, and technically lost. He didn’t really want the kingdoms from what I can tell, he wanted her and when he couldn’t have her he self-destructed, damaging the kingdoms in his wake. He might have been a good king if Lyanna hadn’t died, but once she died, he really just stopped caring about everything.

Joffrey Baratheon: Is a madman. He’s a product of incest, the gods flipped their coin and it landed on the bad side for him. I don’t see a lot of positives for him, cause he’s crazy.

Tommen Baratheon: Has been cuddled and spoiled by Cersei since he was born and now is completely dependent on someone for his orders. He can be saved, since he isn’t crazy like Joffrey, and could end up being an o.k. king, but at the moment no, no, no, no. Like someone else said, choosing him is like choosing whoever is influencing him at the moment.

Renly Baratheon: I really don’t understand why everyone hates this guy so much. To be perfectly honest, he was one of my choses before he got off-ed. He is a partier, he’s flamboyant, and he’s gay. But he understands the game, more than Stannis does arguably. He’s gay, and yet in the books we see him marry, so he can obviously put aside his wants in order to gain a critical political move. He cares about the people; he inspires loyalty with his flamboyance, he rises up and fights for what he wants, and he is a young Robert Baratheon, maybe not with command since we never saw him fight but in other aspects apparently. A young Robert Baratheon wasn’t a bad thing, he had the awe of the kingdoms focused on him when he was young and fighting his war, it was after he was young when we got the Robert we saw later. After the death of Lyanna, the very moment that Robert’s world was shattered and he fell into the kingdom-destroying slump. I think Renly might have been a good king, personally.

Stannis Baratheon: Is my second choice at the moment. He is a good commander, hates the corruption and the game of politics and has a strong moral compass. But his system of judgment is somewhat draconic. I’m not going to say it doesn’t inspire people to change what they used to do, because that depends on the person. Personally, I wouldn’t change, because I know that I would be punished for my bad deeds, so what’s the point of changing, but that’s a personal choice. He also doesn’t play the game, which will be played behind his back regardless of what he wants, it always has been, and so he will be blind to it. He doesn’t inspire loyalty from the Lords of Westeros, the people he kind of needs to have on his side, and seems to have to no intention of trying. I like him, but I’d like him more as the Hand of the King, where he can just lead troops and deal with justice and let someone with more people skills handle the actual politics of kingship.

Danaerys Targaryen: No. She’s been covered and I agree with the previous ideas on her. She’s nice, but not a queen.

Viserys Targaryen: Crazy.

“Aegon Targaryen”: Currently my first choice. He has been trained since birth to be a king and seems to be able to heed the council of wiser men, but at the moment that’s all he is: A trainee. He’s still a kid, and still isn’t really ready for the throne. This war for conquest he’s waging will be a good time to see if he can be a good commander, as well as a good dry run for politics A first taste for the kid to see if he will be any good at all of this. He shows promise, but he is nowhere near being ready for kingship because he still is so young. I’d hate to see another Robb.

Euron Greyjoy: If you vote for Greyjoy’s, you have an odd way of seeing the kingdoms development. They aren't really kings for the mainland: their ways are foreign, their god is foreign and their method of rule doesn't really support a wide kingdom of different beliefs and ideas.
Darkhorse candidate: I don’t really see any of these working out. Jon might be Azor Ahai reborn, but I don’t know how he would be king really.

Robb Stark: Was a good commander, merciful, strong willed, but young, unfortunately. Could have been a good king, but he was a little young, and didn’t really have a lot of great council around him. All of the Northern Lords did whatever he said, and Catelyn is…..Catelyn. I’m sorry I really don’t like her. Regardless with a little more training and time, he could have been a good king.

Balon Greyjoy: See Euron.

Just my opinions.

[Enferfeu]

Yeah but that's because the guy kept taking bricks in the face... If Stannis found himself uncontested he would go back to toolish ways. Davos can only do so much to help a king that is so pigheaded as Stannis, you have to bend to keep the peace, or else you will break.

[Skizbot]

I'm still reluctant to pledge my loyalty to a king who will punish me for saving his life in an illegal way....

Just to be clear, if you're referring to Davos he wasn't punished for smuggling life saving food into Storm's End, he was punished for the years he spent as a smuggler before that. Although its still absolutely a fair opinion to think that was too harsh.

[Gandalf.]

Stannis has become less stubborn and blind after seeing so many losses and poor luck in the more recent books, and he is the only king who pays any attention to the north. His justice system isn't too bad, because if the bad are caught and punished, then less crime IMO. Stannis also knows how to play the game, witnessed by his advantageous assassination of Renly and winning the northerners support.
That is all.

[Gandalf.]

Nul

[Pinkie Pie]

I'm still reluctant to pledge my loyalty to a king who will punish me for saving his life in an illegal way....

I agree with the post quoted below, the punishment was not for smuggling in the onions but for his years of smuggling done beforehand.

Just to be clear, if you're referring to Davos he wasn't punished for smuggling life saving food into Storm's End, he was punished for the years he spent as a smuggler before that. Although its still absolutely a fair opinion to think that was too harsh.

I however disagree with both of you on it being an unfair punishment, for such a long time of smuggling chopping off 4 fingers is a remarkably light sentence for any king and for Stannis it was pretty much like letting him off the hook.

[Stannis Baratheon]

The thing that bothers me in Davos is that he is a bit unrealistic... he was a criminal for a good portion of his life but acts and thinks white as Ned Stark? He's a good character and great advisor but a little bit unbelievable...

[Stannis Baratheon]

sorry double post