End of knighthood

[Rebelyell]

Obviously knighthoods are still given out, but when did they end as a real military or social institution. I've been watching the movies based on Henryk Sienkiewicz novels. The word "knight" as been used several times in a pretty genuine manner. These take place in the mid 1600s which is long after I thought the traditional idea of a "knight" had passed into history. In trying to find an answer to this question, I read that the last English knight to be debased was Francis Mitchell (in 1621) So, did knights really play a real role in Early Modern Europe?

[hellheaven1987]

What do you mean real role? Many British military commanders still received knighthood too.

[Radosław Sikora]

Obviously knighthoods are still given out, but when did they end as a real military or social institution.

It depends on the meaning of the word 'knighthood'. If you think about armoured men with lances, the last knighs (Polish winged hussars) existed until 1776.

[Rebelyell]

It depends on the meaning of the word 'knighthood'. If you think about armoured men with lances, the last knighs (Polish winged hussars) existed until 1776.

Naw, I mean a warrior-social class sort of thing. Minor nobility given land in exchange for military service and in defense of higher nobility.

[Comrade_Rory]

As a military institution, knighthood was on the wane from the late 13th century on. The end of feudal society meant that sovereigns gained a monopoly on war-making, and the old form of military service owed to one's immediate lord became obsolete. Kings still summoned their knights for wars, but increasingly they turned to other sources of manpower, namely mercenaries whose use became common in the 14th century...

Source

I personally would have said it was also due to the social and class changes of the various reformations which went on for a century or 2 and culminated in the Protestant Reformation.
It was no longer important for a land owner to be a warrior and was much more profitable to dedicate your time to business. Especially considering the increasing use of national, professional armies, thus meaning a land owner no longer got his serfs together to arm and send off to war under his own personal banner.

[Radosław Sikora]

Naw, I mean a warrior-social class sort of thing. Minor nobility given land in exchange for military service and in defense of higher nobility.

So, the knigthood existed at least untill the third partition of Poland (1795). BTW, there was no 'minor' and 'higher' nobility in Poland. Alle nobles were equel. However there were huge differences in wealth between them.

I personally would have said it was also due to the social and class changes of the various reformations which went on for a century or 2 and culminated in the Protestant Reformation.
It was no longer important for a land owner to be a warrior and was much more profitable to dedicate your time to business. Especially considering the increasing use of national, professional armies, thus meaning a land owner no longer got his serfs together to arm and send off to war under his own personal banner.

It might be applied to Western Europe. But not to the whole Europe.

[Radosław Sikora]

I've been watching the movies based on Henryk Sienkiewicz novels. The word "knight" as been used several times in a pretty genuine manner. These take place in the mid 1600s which is long after I thought the traditional idea of a "knight" had passed into history.

Because Polish nobles called themselves 'knights' as well. Even the room, where members of Polish Sejm (those members were nobles of course) debated, was called 'knight room' (sala rycerska). And it wasn't only a rhetoric. Polish nobility preserved all proprieties of knights (including feudalism) until the end of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Of course in the end of its existence, knighthood wasn't an effective (from military point of view) force, but the real decline of Polish knights as a real military force began much later than the decline of their Western counterparts. Till the end of 17th c. Polish knights were perceived as the best cavalry in Europe and even in the world.

[Inkie Pie]

Actually the Imperial Knights in the Holy Roman Empire were a relatively strong political force and lasted well beyond the middle ages, even consolidating their power. They had direct control over their lands and were answerable only to the Emperor, although their involvement in the central decision-making of the reich was very limited.

Still, by the Thirty Years War I don't think there was anything distinguishing them from other nobles, in that I don't think they were any more bellicose or military-minded. Obviously, they still fought in battles, but as has been pointed out in most of Europe their military role had transformed.

[AUSSIE11]

I would have said that the rise in absolute monarchism and the creation of the nation state with a standardized "proffessional" army would be the end. so in many ways i would elect the 30 years war as probably the turning point.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Knightly Orders still 'exist' in a way. They are no longer warriors, they are mainly doctors.

The Knights of St. John and the Teutonic Knights still exist.