Artillery in DMN

[Nerouin]

I'm not sure if anyone else has had this experience, but artillery in DMN does not fit the old adage of "artillery wins battles." I'm not sure if it's the altered trajectories or what, but DMN artillery seems to me highly ineffective. The accuracy is such that very little damage is done. For example, I today tried a battle in which I had six batteries of elite French artillery (3x artillerie a pied, 3x artillerie a cheval; excuse the lack of accents) firing at two units of British foot. The artillery had an unobstructed view of the targets--I was playing on grassy flatlands, and there were no friendly troops in front of the artillery--and began firing at maximum range. The artillery fired continuously as the British troops marched toward my line. By the time the two British units in question were nearing musket range, the six batteries of artillery had combined for 50 casualties. I imagine this number would have begun to increase as the enemy had gotten even closer, but they would soon have been in range to begin picking off my artillerists or outright charging my batteries.

I tried another scenario soon afterward. In this one, I upgraded a unit of artillery a cheval to maximum veterancy--thus creating the most accurate artillery unit possible in the game--and pitted it against a unit of 500 fencibles. As before, the artillery was firing without obstruction of any kind and began firing when the enemy was at maximum range. When the fencibles reached musket range, they had only suffered 13 casualties. I'd have been better off just fielding a unit of militia myself, because they'd have been able to do more damage and, unlike the artillery, would have a chance of victory when charged at by an enemy.

Also of issue in this mod is the amount of friendly fire that artillery does. Artillery has a habit of hitting friendly troops in situations in which this should not occur. It seems to me that the shell trajectories in this mod are far flatter than they are in other mods and in vanilla. This seems to account for the friendly fire and for such an amazing number of shells undershooting their targets; it seems like 90% of misses are undershots.

Don't get me wrong; I like Darth's work quite a bit. I'm not trying to overly criticize. I'm just curious as to what's up with this, because artillery is almost not worth having as things stand. Am I missing something?

[Nerouin]

Another test: four maximum-veterancy unicorns managed to do only 100 casualties to a group of tightly-packed bazouks before the enemy entered canister range.

In other words, unicorns are worse than useless as things stand. They take up a spot that musketmen could otherwise occupy.

A final test: Four batteries of maximum-veterancy artillerie a pied versus four units of fencibles. I spaced out the artillery batteries this time. Only 120 casualties were done before they entered canister range. at this stage, they insensibly began firing at my batteries rather than charging them.

[Attila the nun]

I given up using artillery long range on infantry just use it on enemy cavalry and then use canister on infantry when they get close. Howitzers seem really ineffective unless shooting at mass of 10 units and even then the rarely hit. most explode in the sky an even though it looks like shrapnel is raining down in right place it does no damage.

[RGA]

Deal with it. Artillery is only one piece of the whole very naive and wrong conception of CA about Napoleonic warfare. No infantry attacking in column, no formation disruption by arty fire, morale goes from green to red and turnes back green again after in matter of seconds... I loved NTW so much that I spent my time reading books about Napoleonic warfare. Biggest mistake ever, because I hate this game afterwards.

The best uses of arty in game are:
- sniping enemy's general (unrealistic)
- killing cavalry (OK)
- destroying enemy cannons (realistic)
- destroying enemy morale (realistic but not perfect due to the insane morale recovery. Cannister does much better job than solid shots)
- cinematic effect (completely lovely)

[FiestaSolara]

I think arty is now pretty balanced. You dont want it to get more powerful since it will interfere too much with intended gameplay.

[Nerouin]

I think arty is now pretty balanced. You dont want it to get more powerful since it will interfere too much with intended gameplay.

It's currently useless. It's useful only for canister fire and only if the AI is dumb enough to stand and shoot at it rather than charging, which is only part of the time. There's very little reason to include a unit of artillery in one's army rather than replacing it with a unit of infantry.

A substantial part of Napoleon's success came from his understanding of how artillery was best used. This cannot be reflected in DMN as things stand, because artillery cannot hit the broad side of a barn.

[Vespidian]

If artillery was realistic to the time period it would massively unbalance the game. As it is I feel it is just right, it suits the purpose of counter battery fire perfectly along with providing a strong deterrent to cavalry charges. If you want to be dishonourable it is useful for sniping generals and it will at least cause a few casualties against infantry. Place it right and cannister is perfectly viable though if you have cannons out on their own then you deserve to get charged. I'd say the only issue with it at the moment is that auto resolve values cannons far too highly when they make up the entirity of an army.

[Mikail Mengsk]

There is a mod that increases the artillery damage in NTW, can't find it right now but there is and it works. Artillery risks to become quite OP with it, so look out.

[Crymson]

Today I reinstalled NTW to try out the newest version of DM. I'm sad to find that artillery is still awfully underpowered. The accuracy of cannon in this mod is so low that they are worth vastly less than an infantry unit. Why bother to use artillery in their current form?

[6y7t8h]

I do agree, maybe increasing the upkeep and recruitment cost of artillery and making them more effective (back to Darthmod ETW levels) would be great. I remember in ETW, artillery was the deciding factor in battles, now it's pretty much useless.

[Jiiub]

seems people see arty the same they see archers in Rome, for me arty is extremely important, just as archers are in rome.

its not always about doing dmg, but instead forcing the enemy to act, you running into enemy lines WILL put you in a worse position compared to FORCING the enemy to run into yours.

Now i think the dmg needs to go up, i just had a river battle against the broken AI(they just cant do rivers) and i got a perfect hit as the ball rolled over the bridge and hit atleast 50-100 enemies, all went down but just got back up again, not sure how the code is, hits should kill, but the shockwave kills no one.

[Bran Mac Born]

Well you can play my DMN modifications for deadly arty.

[Vizze]

I have had the same problems with DMN. Arty is very much useless and yes I have tried your mod Bran and I must say that arty still is too useless. But it is improved. I liked the way it was in Empire Total War where arty actually could kill stuff. I want to have six arty units in my army and feel like they do something.

[Jiiub]

well how much dmg do you think one ball of metal can do? it might hit 2-5 people if it hits right into a line not more, unless you use exploding shells ofcourse. its not a bomb its a metal ball that slams into the ground, so it cant compete with 200 muskets firing.

but the moral hit is much higher and it can shoot from a long distance, also looks cool

[Bran Mac Born]

Well use this-It helps a lot Unpack it into your napoleon total war data folder. Arty will be deadly! I always use it with my settings.

[43rdFoot]

Before Darthmod I used the All in One mod. I switched to Darthmod because it offered multiplayer, but I do miss All in One's artillery, which were downright terrifying. Canister was three times the range of vanilla, at least, and was even more potent. Cannon were a game changer, and where you put the guns could easily determine the outcome of a battle. I wish Darthmod's guns were as vicious.

[skullripper]

how come the 7lbers howizters don't shoot quicklime, carcass, or regular shot, and how come the cannon craters don't stay forever?

[Istari6]

Background: I'm coming off Darthmod ETW, where I've had some of my best ever Total War experiences playing as Bavaria and Britain. Loved artillery in ETW - sounds were visceral and the battlefield effects were extraordinary when used well. I was a little troubled by artillery's extreme accuracy at long range, but overall artillery was something to fear. Having had such a great time with Darthmod ETW, been looking forward to moving forward in history and starting Darthmod NTW. Just installed last night with the latest Darthmod (2.65).

Totally stunned at how different the artillery is in this version. Forced Sardinian line infantry into square with 6 lbr batteries just outside cannister range, hitting them with round shot over and over for no effect. Shots were missing all around them. This was a BIG target at ideal effective range for round shot, and they were practically useless.

Was sure that I had installed Darthmod wrong, so came here looking for advice and see this thread. Now I'm completely puzzled as to why the two versions are so different in their effects. Has Darth posted about why artillery is neutered in this mod? I'm looking for the most historically accurate version consistent with fun gameplay, and while I'd be happy to see ETW's artillery dialed back a little bit (particularly at those longer ranges), this just feels broken.

I'm going to look at Bran Mac Born's mod linked above, but are there any other ways we can modify Darthmod to be closer to ETW regards artillery? Or is there a reason why we shouldn't mess with it and it was deliberately chosen to be this way?

Thanks!

[6y7t8h]

Mac's mod is much more realistic when it comes to arty, it's a real game-changer once you have about 4-6 units of 6 pounders (they are definitely a lot more accurate and useful than their 12 pounder counterparts against inf/cav). Once you play around with this, you'll realise that it would be unwise to make it even more powerful. Canister works well far beyond its range too, try using that

[Istari6]

Mac's mod is much more realistic when it comes to arty, it's a real game-changer once you have about 4-6 units of 6 pounders (they are definitely a lot more accurate and useful than their 12 pounder counterparts against inf/cav). Once you play around with this, you'll realise that it would be unwise to make it even more powerful. Canister works well far beyond its range too, try using that

OK, will definitely give Mac's mod a try. Do we know why Darthmod NTW is so different from Darthmod ETW in this respect? Is there a way to compare Mac's mod against Darthmod ETW in terms of how artillery is configured? I don't need long-range canister - would prefer it to be short-range defense as it was historically, just give me reasonably accurate round shot at cannon's optimal range.

It's funny, I remember M2TW (I think I was using Lusted's mod way back then) and the differences between the demi-cannons and the culverins were really noticeable in accuracy at longer ranges. I was playing as the Spanish in the New World campaign, and it felt awesome to be forced to follow the historical practices of using older artillery for siege (since they were only accurate enough to hit something the size of a castle wall :>) while being able to use newer artillery pieces (with better accuracy and flatter trajectories) for battlefield tasks like targeting cavalry groups at medium/long-range. Gave me a great appreciation for how the advances in artillery tech at that time offered new capabilities to commanders.

Hoping that Mac's mod can offer some of that same historical feel to NTW, forcing the use of different weapons for different tasks because of the trade off between power, accuracy & mobility.