Pro-Religion: The Rebirth

[Tom Paine]

It has? That's news to me, although I understand that the Left agrees with the notion assiduously. You see, it allows them to postulate a universe in which God is not needed ... in other words, it fits their worldview.

Except for the huge number of Christian liberals of course. Because while the Left is around half of the world's population (to simplify things a little) atheists and the nonreligious make up just less than 15% of that population.

By the way, my parents evolved? Personally? Interesting ...

Of course! Evolution has not stopped just yet.

[Oldgamer]

Except for the huge number of Christian liberals of course. Because while the Left is around half of the world's population (to simplify things a little) atheists and the nonreligious make up just less than 15% of that population.

I would say that Christian liberals make up a minority of the world's population, although the Catholic Church is hard to judge, on this score. Liberal denominations like the Presbyterians, the Episcopal Church, Lutheran Church (ELCA), United Church of Christ, and so on, accept evolution, more or less.

As to the Catholic Church, though most of the Church hierarchy is on the science bandwagon, the Church is composed of people who are, for the most part, very conservative. Remember that most Catholics don't live in Europe, but in Africa and Latin America.

[Tom Paine]

I would say that Christian liberals make up a minority of the world's population, although the Catholic Church is hard to judge, on this score. Liberal denominations like the Presbyterians, the Episcopal Church, Lutheran Church (ELCA), United Church of Christ, and so on, accept evolution, more or less.

As to the Catholic Church, though most of the Church hierarchy is on the science bandwagon, the Church is composed of people who are, for the most part, very conservative. Remember that most Catholics don't live in Europe, but in Africa and Latin America.

But Catholics are only about half of Christians in total anyway...
More to the point that is not the only form of liberalism, and Christianity has a very strong liberal tendency in some ways.

[Oldgamer]

More to the point that is not the only form of liberalism, and Christianity has a very strong liberal tendency in some ways.

This is something that I can agree with. Why am I not traveling about the earth, shooting at people from 1000 meters +, at the behest of people whom I will not mention? The epiphany that has taken place within me, in recent years, quite simply.

For example, I was somewhat taken aback by the President's gloating about the death of Zarqawi. I know that it is war, and you either kill or capture your enemies in war. But as a Christian, and according to traditional Christian beliefs ... and I believe that he is a Christian ... does he not realize that the man did not pass go, did not collect $200, but went straightway to hell?

And note that I had the same reaction to the news, till chastised by my own pastor.

[Shaun]

It has? That's news to me, although I understand that the Left agrees with the notion assiduously. You see, it allows them to postulate a universe in which God is not needed ... in other words, it fits their worldview.

Its funny how many Christian scientists also belive in Evolution. And there is a heck of a lot more evidence to support Evolution than creationism. Take Adam and Eve for instance. Its well known that Dinosaurs lived long before humans, so where does adam and eve fit into this? I dont recall the bible mentioning Dinosaurs, but yet many skeletons have been discovered.

And yes, it does fit our world views, the idea of a god sounds ludacris to us, just like the reverse sounds to you. You have your beliefs, we have ours, that also seem to be backed yp by more evidence.

[Zapp]

The bible does not really prove against evolution. It's said that god created the animals before the humans, and he created the humans one day after he created the animals. Now, the thing is that genesis is not really a history book. It's kinda poetically written, so one day for god could as well be 1 billion years. It could possibly be something like god knew that the humans would evolve someday, cause he controlled the evolution, and when the humans where evolved, maybe he called it the 6th day. I don't say I believe it like this, cause I know stuff that is evidence against evolution, as well as I know stuff that is for evolution, so I can't say what I believe. I believe in micro-evolution, but I don't believe small particle crap could evolve to big dinosaurs and humans. I just don't think the humans just evolved from apes and suddenly became alot more intelligent than the rest of the animals for no reason at all.

Also, a thing against evolution, if something lives, it must have at least I think it was 300 genes. The thing is, that if "something" became "something living", I.E. got over the required amount of genes out of 0 genes, the chance is about 15^64 or something like that. I just can't believe that just happened by chance. Uhm, did I go off topic now?

EDIT: I just remembered, this should fit better in the evolution thread.....

[Roma Victa!]

I admire that you all have gathered together to profess your faith. But this group is probably not for me. I'm a Christian, but I don't think coming together in some kind of faction is the best way to counter atheist arguments.

I don't want to seem like I'm on one side of some battleline. Non-believers are our brothers too, though some of them may not think so. :original:

[IamthePope]

BTW, the Catholic Church niether denies nor officially endorses evolution. The position of the Church is that Evolution is worthy of beleif and that faith and science can always coexist.

The position of the Roman Catholic Church on the theory of evolution has changed over the last two centuries from a large period of no official mention, to a statement of neutrality in the 1950s, to a more explicit acceptance in recent years. Today, the official Church's position remains a focus of controversy and is fairly non-specific, stating only that faith and scientific findings regarding the evolution of man's material body are not in conflict, and that the existence of God is required to explain the spiritual component of man's origins. This view falls into the spectrum of viewpoints that are grouped under the concept of theistic evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...atholic_church

Updated Official Members list
Maron
Mudd
Zenith Darksea
Dzoavits
Evan_Kikla
Jesu_follower
Hub'ite
CrimsonKing0
IamthePope
scottishranger
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tnick777
Confederate Soldier
bdh
Valentinian
Zapp
Oldgamer
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[Sétanta]

admire that you all have gathered together to profess your faith. But this group is probably not for me. I'm a Christian, but I don't think coming together in some kind of faction is the best way to counter atheist arguments.

Just a way to show solidarity when the atheists are too. Nothing wrong with that.

[Maron]

IamthePope if you would check the first post it has several others on the list that you do not have. (a couple were PM joins. )

Just an announcement:

For those people who did not yet listen to the podcast on the main page, we got mentioned along with SIN. I would like to thank Evariste for the brief mention. Maybe this will bring in some new membership .

Keep the FAITH and be strong,
-Maron

[Cayo_Julio_Cesar]

I Wanna Joins

[I Have a Clever Name]

The bible does not really prove against evolution. It's said that god created the animals before the humans, and he created the humans one day after he created the animals.

Incorrect. Genesis I and II contradict one another, look up GE 1:24-27 and GE 2:7. Poetically written or not, its contrapositive.

[IamthePope]

Incorrect. Genesis I and II contradict one another, look up GE 1:24-27 and GE 2:7. Poetically written or not, its contrapositive.

Only fundamentalist Protestants believe in biblical literalism. The rest of Christianity has long held (at least since the time of St. Augustine) that the Bible is not to be taken literally.

[Rhinosaur]

Please add me to your organisation. While I don't believe God needs any defending, I do get tired of people who would ridicule those of us who do believe in someone higher than ourselves.

[Zenith Darksea]

The rest of Christianity has long held (at least since the time of St. Augustine) that the Bible is not to be taken literally.

Certainly all the Greek Fathers as far back as I can think have held that the early books of the Old Testament were allegorical. I imagine that the Latin fathers did so also. But obviously the New Testament is to be taken literally.

[Sephynos]

Thats what I wrote on S.I.N. thread after seeing many believers bashing their heads against the wall by saying strange things.:

I see alot of judging and kind' of hate by some fellow christians and believers bros, with a lot of Medieval's way of thinking. And many decent answers are from our atheist bros. Some of you christians bros really think they are going to hell and all that... pure stupidity. Being an atheist is not an evil way to be.
If you don't question about G*d or search for it truly, it's like believing at some sort of emptyness. G*d is infinitly beyond a book, relyin' only on the Bible like some sort of lawyer, thinking it is the ulimate truth... well thats imbecile. G*d gives the Truth in every living creature (not only men). The difference is, it's mankind's free will that honors the Truth or not. What's making man unpure is not what he's eating (knowledge, open-heart, open-head which bring an healty faith), but what comes out from his mouth (hate, lies, stubburn and narrow-mind speaking)
Many christians don't know truly the story of their own religion; Bless thy who believe without seeing; but don't be stupid... please read, get more knowledge.

Some will say better to believe then don't. That's evil to answer like that (Not the evil image with the Grrr , lol), but evil to the sense that you scare people, and make them deal with absolute by taking away the essence of what is Faith from that person. The mind makes you forget your senses to elements (which makes your wisdom greater); your heart can make you forget the elements, you have to work both.

You know sometimes some people have difficult life where they see everything destroy or lose all at once , some of them don't believe in G*d anymore. Is that evil? Oh no, I say. The pain of the heart is beyond words. It is true every living creature are born free to be, this can be your greatess bless or your greatess malediction because of the uncertain consequences sometimes. Believers with pain will blame G*d or some will say it was meant to be (mostly those who never suffer), those who don,t believ will maybe blame life itself. I those cases I think maybe, only the strenght of hope can help throught G*d or throught hope itself. thats what think

I do believe in the One and Only G*d, I recognize Yeshua has the true Christ by his message, the exemple of life, for his courage and hope he brang to my heart (even if he had children for some, I don't care really, living in peaceful faith, have a wife and children... do you see something wrong with that? If so youre a fanatic.). I don't pray Mary (Myriam) to help me, I say the "Ave Maria" for great respect for that strong woman. I don't prey G*d so i may win the lottery (which could be cool so I may do some upgrade on my computer and my economy for the PS3, :wink: , lol), but to have a thurst for knowledge of Him, a faithful knowledge of everything that brings good (has far as I know what good is, and from my parental education). I do have a lot of respect for saints but I don't prey them, they are at some point exemple, i don't them all (impossible to do) but the one I admire the most is San Francesco Assisi (Saint Francois d'Assise in french, I don't know in english), really down to earth guy.


I don't like that Zeus slyle of god they are trying to symbiose with the Only One, and the Appollo/Phebus Yeshua type, and Isis Miryam type; really dishonest and unrespectable.
I love science, but I don't like when it tries to persuade me that G*d don't exist, by tying to personify Him to a believer. If there would be some sort of scientific way to explain I think they must read the real "Our Lord prayer" which is much more understanding of G*d, and definitly stronger then the Greek/Roman "Our Father" prayer, patriarcal translation.

From Yeshua's aramaic words and sens

Oh Thou, from whom the breath of life comes,
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.
May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest.
Your Heavenly Domain approaches.
Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)
just as on earth (that is material and dense).

Give us wisdom (understanding, assistance) for our daily need,
detach the fetters of faults that bind us, (karma)
like we let go the guilt of others.
Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations),
but let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose.
From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,
the song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.

Ame-en: Sealed in trust, faith and truth.(I confirm with my entire being)


The only thing I'm asking is to don't bash on belief of others.
I still have things to learn about my G*d, so If some of you guys have some info I'll be glad know them.

I'll be back later, I'm a little tired

(Sorry my english is not so good, I'm french speaking )

[I Have a Clever Name]

Only fundamentalist Protestants believe in biblical literalism. The rest of Christianity has long held (at least since the time of St. Augustine) that the Bible is not to be taken literally.

Yes, as with most theology once it reaches a certain level of absurdity it becomes layered with figurative ambiguity by its adherants. Rather that then rejecting it altogether.

Your interpretation is scarcely better however, it reduces Genesis into nothing more than self-contradictory metaphorical jargon. What use that is to anybody I have no idea.

[Zapp]

Only fundamentalist Protestants believe in biblical literalism. The rest of Christianity has long held (at least since the time of St. Augustine) that the Bible is not to be taken literally.

What about fundametalist Catholics? Or fundametalist Orthodox? Fundametalist Christians?! This is redicioulus, like only the protestants have fundamentalists..

[Zenith Darksea]

like only the protestants have fundamentalists..

That statement does go some way to being truthful, but to an extent you've got a point. There are fundamentalist Catholics and Orthodox too.

[Osceola]

Please add me

Dont feel like explaining my position now but I'm Protestant Christian.