Magistrate Debate Thread

[Okmin]

For first-time offenders who got hit with an unusually large infraction, I'd say reduce it (if not overturn), but mostly no clemency since they really should know the rules.

[LestaT]

What is the role of a Magistrate?

Decides who goes free and who goes to the gallows ? Judge and jury at the same time for a period of three months (I wish it's for life .. )

How does the appealing-system works?

Those accused/sentenced tells their story why they shouldn't be convicted. Those who convict tells their part why the conviction should stay and the action just. Magistrates then counts who bribed more before passing sentence.

What is the difference between the Tribunal and the Praetorium?

I honestly don't know. I think Tribunal is something like a court but more regal. Praetorium ? Some sort of royal bodyguard ?

What is your opinion of the ToS?

English proverb says something like 'rules are made to be broken'. Anyway since I'm not English it did not applied to me. In anyway case ToS or any rules made that still exist is just. It's up to the people who implement them to act the honorable way.

[Ishan]

@LestaT
Please read the following, this will clear your doubts and you can always PM a moderation mentor if you have any doubts about such things:
http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Appeals_Process
Perhaps outdated, so i'll do that right now & then approve the edit from hex.

I appreciate your honesty btw!

[Genius of the Restoration]

What is the role of a Magistrate?

How does the appealing-system works?

What is the difference between the Tribunal and the Praetorium?

What is your opinion of the ToS?

Magistrates are acting tribunes in the cases that they participate in. A member appeals to the Tribunal (preferably after contacting the moderator in question and possibly the Praetorium); the tribunes for the case (this includes the magistrate) look at the evidence, ask for any information that isn't provided that they need; tribunes deliberate; tribunes vote on the result of the appeal and announce the verdict. The Praetorium is a place where clemency can be sought. Infractions may be overturned by adminstrators and moderators without recourse to the more formal appeal system of the Tribunal. The Pratorium fills the site role as a court of equity. The ToS is pretty good. I think there are a couple of things that aren't entirely clear, but it's mostly fine.

Why do you run for Magistrate ?

I enjoy looking at the technicalities of language and how it applies to situations. I think I'd do a good job of it. I also like doing things on TWC and have an interest in the justice system generally.

The Magistrate position can be a difficult one with cases that aren't always clear. Is there something in your life, background, or past experience that you think might help you discern the truth behind cases?

Is there a recent case (let's say the past 2-3 months) where you disagreed with the tribunal decision(s)?

I wouldn't say magistrates are there to discern the truth. The nature of many difficult cases is that what the truth is will often be quite open to interpretation. Common understandings and reasonable interpretations are more useful than going truth hunting IMO. Regarding my life, I did a year of law at uni before changing degrees. It was fun, but I decided that I didn't want a career in that profession. More importantly though, I can follow steps of logic and draw conclusions from them. I think that's a better skill to have than any amount of experience that mightn't indicate any learnt behaviour. I can't think of any recent decisions that I've disagreed with.

My questions:
Do you think it is right that tribunes occupy a more important role than magistrates in the process, or would you prefer a greater role for elected magistrates as compared to tribunes?

Which do you think is more important in a candidate; experience or new ideas? Similarly, is mercy or justice a more important concept to you?

Do you see this as a step towards more important staffing roles or an end in itself?

I think the Tribunal system is fine at the moment. Experience, though I don't think either of them are particularly valuable. Experience doesn't indicate that someone is good. We hope that it does, but it doesn't. I don't understand what new ideas need to be introduced to the Tribunal. I can't think of any new ideas that would be of value. No, I don't see this as a step toward more important staffing roles. If I wanted a different role, I'd apply for it.

Just one further question, regarding the "implicit" do I interpret you right that saying "you're a liar" and "this is a lie" are the same?

Not directed at me, but I don't think it is. The latter reflects on the content of a post, while the former reflects on the poster.

How much, if any, clemency should be given by Tribunal staff?

Little. Tribunes judge whether moderators have overreached. The discretion of what punishment to give is up to the moderators, not the tribunes. If that discretion has been taken too far, then the tribunes should rein it in, but that doesn't happen very often.

[Sųren]

How active do you all think you'll be able to be? The workload of a magistrate is fairly small, and doesn't require anyone to devote long periods of time to it, but it does require consistent activity. In general it's ideal if magistrates can check the Tribunal on a daily basis. Obviously everyone goes on holiday and has periods where they can't log on etc., that's fine, so it's a question of how long they'll generally be available. For instance someone who can log on and get involved for a few minutes 5 times a week, would be much better for the role than someone who barely logs on during the week, but spends hours and hours on TWC at weekends.

[Genius of the Restoration]

I already check in on TWC daily and see if there's anything that needs my immediate attention, so there's no worries there.

A helpful hint I might mention for anyone else who likes keeping abreast of things is to use the Tapatalk app. My phone checks on TWC every couple of hours and gives me a notification when someone posts in my subscribed threads (which are the Curial Commentary threads atm because they're relevant to me as a councillor and assistant curator). It's an easy way to know if something's come up that you need to look at when you've got time.

[LestaT]

How active do you all think you'll be able to be? The workload of a magistrate is fairly small, and doesn't require anyone to devote long periods of time to it, but it does require consistent activity. In general it's ideal if magistrates can check the Tribunal on a daily basis. Obviously everyone goes on holiday and has periods where they can't log on etc., that's fine, so it's a question of how long they'll generally be available. For instance someone who can log on and get involved for a few minutes 5 times a week, would be much better for the role than someone who barely logs on during the week, but spends hours and hours on TWC at weekends.

0900-1800 (+8gmt) daily on weekdays.

[Nyxos]

Why do you run for Magistrate ?

I think the Tribunal system of TWC is a great invention, it allows users to have a say and defend themselves when they feel moderation has acted wrongly against them. Moderator are still mostly human, and as such make mistakes. Being a Magistrate will allow me to fix such mistakes or confirm their action.

The Magistrate position can be a difficult one with cases that aren't always clear. Is there something in your life, background, or past experience that you think might help you discern the truth behind cases?

Is there a recent case (let's say the past 2-3 months) where you disagreed with the tribunal decision(s)?

Well, as Okmin said, we see quite a few disciplinary cases in with with have to take or not action against the citizen. But that's pretty much all.

I completely disagree with this Tribunal decision. It is my opinion that the appeal should never have been granted. But it is possible (and quite likely) that I do not know all there is to know about the case, so had I been a Magistrate I might have
had another opinion about it.

My questions:
Do you think it is right that tribunes occupy a more important role than magistrates in the process, or would you prefer a greater role for elected magistrates as compared to tribunes?

Which do you think is more important in a candidate; experience or new ideas? Similarly, is mercy or justice a more important concept to you?

Do you see this as a step towards more important staffing roles or an end in itself?

Since Magistrates are per the TWC Constitution rotating Tribunes, they have the same role, only less often.

Just one further question, regarding the "implicit" do I interpret you right that saying "you're a liar" and "this is a lie" are the same?

The sentence "you are a liar" calls the poster, as a person, a liar. As such, it is an insult. The sentence "this is a lie" on the other hand only points out that what you have written is a lie, and doesn't imply that you have a habit of lying. If I were to say "Elephants are purple" that would be a lie and you would be right to call it out.

How active do you all think you'll be able to be? The workload of a magistrate is fairly small, and doesn't require anyone to devote long periods of time to it, but it does require consistent activity. In general it's ideal if magistrates can check the Tribunal on a daily basis. Obviously everyone goes on holiday and has periods where they can't log on etc., that's fine, so it's a question of how long they'll generally be available. For instance someone who can log on and get involved for a few minutes 5 times a week, would be much better for the role than someone who barely logs on during the week, but spends hours and hours on TWC at weekends.

I log in everyday, unless I'm on vacation somewhere without WiFi, which rarely happens (vacations that is ).
I don't post much anymore, but I always try and keep up to date with everything that's happening.

[Okmin]

How active do you all think you'll be able to be? The workload of a magistrate is fairly small, and doesn't require anyone to devote long periods of time to it, but it does require consistent activity. In general it's ideal if magistrates can check the Tribunal on a daily basis. Obviously everyone goes on holiday and has periods where they can't log on etc., that's fine, so it's a question of how long they'll generally be available. For instance someone who can log on and get involved for a few minutes 5 times a week, would be much better for the role than someone who barely logs on during the week, but spends hours and hours on TWC at weekends.

I'm on TWC virtually everyday.

[Jubal_Barca]

Nyxos; my point is that Tribunes outnumber the Magistrates in each decision. Also, what are your responses to my other queries?

[Nyxos]

Nyxos; my point is that Tribunes outnumber the Magistrates in each decision. Also, what are your responses to my other queries?

Well the point of the Magistrate it to have someone that brings in a fresh opinion, especially since the last reform, I don't feel that any is more important than the other, or has more responsibilities, Tribunes just have them more often.

As for experience, the latest reform was made so that more people could access to that post, experience is always nice, but you always need to have your first time, and I've seen people do better on their first try than veterans.

I don't see either mercy nor justice in the job description of the Magistrate, only making sure that the ToS was applied fairly.

I do not see this as a stepping stone toward more important staffing roles, I have no wish of becoming a moderator, no wish of becoming a Tribune "for life".

Sorry, I wanted to answer your questions before but I forgot half way through

[Sųren]

Well the point of the Magistrate it to have someone that brings in a fresh opinion, especially since the last reform, I don't feel that any is more important than the other, or has more responsibilities, Tribunes just have them more often.

This is not actually correct, the Tribunes oversee the Magistrates and the Tribunal in general and can in fact remove or veto Magistrates if they want. However everyone's vote is equal when judging an appeal.

[LestaT]

Why do you run for Magistrate ?

Why not ? First time participating in this election after 6 years being a citizen is fun.

[m_1512]

The Magistrate position can be a difficult one with cases that aren't always clear. Is there something in your life, background, or past experience that you think might help you discern the truth behind cases?

Is there a recent case (let's say the past 2-3 months) where you disagreed with the tribunal decision(s)?

Now that you mention it, there was a similar incident in my college in the final semester where I discerned the truth among the petty politics and suspiscions.

Nope, I always found that the Tribunes have always been fair to the members. And should I get elected, I'd be honored to work with Garb (Garbarappa) whom I have always liked even if we have interacted only few times.

Quite so and thank you for answering my questions.

Thanks you.

Is the publicity or the lag thereof the only difference between those two fora?

Well, that is the most basic difference when you look at it. A wide detail can be given by one whos been there. But I can say that Praetorium is for talks with Admins whilst Tribunal is appeal to the Tribunes and Magistrates.

What is the member appealing in the Tribunal, the decision made in the Praetorium or the infraction issued?

Both. His appeal would be directly against the Infraction issued and indirectly towards Praetorium whos decision he disagrees with.

Again, I am not saying that this is the only approach. There might be cases where the member might go to the Tribunal directly or be content with Praetorium's decision itself.

My questions:

Do you think it is right that tribunes occupy a more important role than magistrates in the process, or would you prefer a greater role for elected magistrates as compared to tribunes?

If you take it in the current form, tribunes have 2 votes whilst magistrate has 1. The reason can be that Tribunes are appointed by Hex and hence are specialists. Altogether, the current system is fine.

Which do you think is more important in a candidate; experience or new ideas?

Both are two ends of thread. Experience is good, but new ideas bring freshness. And speaking as a first timer, should I make it, I would get experience only by serving.

Similarly, is mercy or justice a more important concept to you?

The concept is subjective and depends case to case.

Do you see this as a step towards more important staffing roles or an end in itself?

End in itself. I never see it as stepping stones or something. I also would like to say that doing so would undermine the post itself. I just want to contribute to the site in a more direct manner, that's all.

Lets imagine the following scenario, three members come forth to the tribunal, all been admonished by moderation for insulting others. Let's further imagine all replied to one and the same post to make it easier in comparison.

I'd like to answer this, with your due consent of course.

1st Appellant: Denied! That is a insult, which plainly not allowed. The overly formal tone of it indeed makes it feel like a slap on the face with a glove.

2nd Appellant: Denied! There is a better way to criticize a post, but this is not it. Also, he has a quite colourful moderation history, and this can be justified by Moderation Discretion.

The list following below is intended to cover all ToS violations, but it is naturally impossible to include examples of every single possible variation. Therefore moderator discretion will be exercised and moderating action should be expected where and when moderators deem appropriate, that might not exactly correspond to any of the following violation categories.

Also, WTF seems a bit like Censor bypassing as the f-word is still deemed offensive in many places.

3rd Appellant: Denied! You cannot appeal notes.

What can be appealed in the Tribunal? What cannot be appealed in the Tribunal? Give examples.

[insert Okmin's answer rephrased]

By clemency I mean any form of lenience.

Could you perchance give a small example?

How active do you all think you'll be able to be? The workload of a magistrate is fairly small, and doesn't require anyone to devote long periods of time to it, but it does require consistent activity. In general it's ideal if magistrates can check the Tribunal on a daily basis. Obviously everyone goes on holiday and has periods where they can't log on etc., that's fine, so it's a question of how long they'll generally be available. For instance someone who can log on and get involved for a few minutes 5 times a week, would be much better for the role than someone who barely logs on during the week, but spends hours and hours on TWC at weekends.

I log into TWC daily. You may freely check my activity log.



I hope my answers were satisfactory.

[Harry Lime]

For all applicants.

Which has been your favourite appeal and why?

[Silent Assassin]

To all applicants,

What do you think is the best quality that a Magistrate should have that would help him do his job in a better and more efficient way?

[Nyxos]

For all applicants.

Which has been your favourite appeal and why?

I honestly can't find a favorite appeal, many have been great fun, often thanks to Hotspur

To all applicants,

What do you think is the best quality that a Magistrate should have that would help him do his job in a better and more efficient way?

Reading skills, in English that is.

[Okmin]

For all applicants.

Which has been your favourite appeal and why?

This one because he blamed me

In all seriousness though I don't have a favorite, but I do find borderline cases really interesting to see how they're decided.

To all applicants,

What do you think is the best quality that a Magistrate should have that would help him do his job in a better and more efficient way?

Impartiality.

[m_1512]

For all applicants.

Which has been your favourite appeal and why?

I don't exactly have any such favourite. But if you want a comical one, then I'd suggest you this -> March Fools Appeal 2 - Forum Ban
Of course, to understand it, you would have to know that drama behind it.

To all applicants,

What do you think is the best quality that a Magistrate should have that would help him do his job in a better and more efficient way?

Impartiality.
A magistrate has to in an unbiased way resolve the issue as a third person, who is not on anyone's side.

[Genius of the Restoration]

For all applicants.

Which has been your favourite appeal and why?

I don't have one. If I did, it would probably be one of jo's.

To all applicants,

What do you think is the best quality that a Magistrate should have that would help him do his job in a better and more efficient way?

Understanding the difference between significant and immaterial details.