The Battle For Middle Earth - Hotseat Campaign [TATW 3.2]

[Aldor]

Thanks Gallus.

Punishments are the admin's job, I don't want to disadvantage Nice without a real need.

He did broke a rule (max 5 reloads by admin) in my opinion. I only want him to replay his turn fair.

I think that Nice thinks that the rule applies to max 5 player attempts, but that's not correct. The admin has to get at least one win every 5 reloads consistently.


Let me try to give a more understandable explanation (someone asked one).

Well, I actually won it on my second try after doing some random stuff which I planned to reload anyways.(surveillance and see if spies can open gates)
I failed to recreate it after 10 reloads.
Because of that I tried to backtrack what I did before I won the battle the first time and was actually able to recreat my victory.
I assume a lot of saving and reloading lowers your victory chances and because of that you should do your important battles without saving between them.

Nice was forced to redo a certain movement sheme to get a win.

Those movements - for all clarity - only affected the so called "random" number and didn't have anything further to do with the battle itself. Every force was already in placement of battle at the start of the turn.

It was impossible for Nice to get a victory when he tried any other movement sheme (any other "random number"). Even after 10 reloads, he could not gain victory when doing other movements (other "random number") according to his message.

Even if there would be a slightly lower victory chance after saving/reloading, which isn't proven...

That really can't turn a < 1/10 chance on victory into a > 1/5 chance ...


NB: When exacly Nice recieved his winning random number doesn't matter.


A 'nice' (pun intended) real-life example:

Compare it to lotery numbers. You can win a lotery even if the chance is one on a million. However... this doesn't mean that you'll be able to reproduce your winning result when filling in another random number. If you fill in more lotery tickets, the chance will still be one on a million.

Compare Nice to the person who got the winning number. Nice then tried to participate the following ten times, but didn't win. Endlessly repeated his chance will drop below < 1/10. If the lotery rules would state that you have to win once every five times consistently, then Nice broke that rule even though he did pull a win off once with his lucky number.

[Nice]

It was impossible for Nice to get a victory when he tried any other movement sheme (any other "random number"). Even after 10 reloads, he could not gain victory when doing other movements (other "random number") according to his message.

When did I say I did other random movements? I just did the following order 10 times: save, attack, reload, save...
I got very bad results like this. When I did it with random movements from the beginning I got way better results like average defeat, draw and clear victory.
If that battle was totally uneven then my only chance to win would have been a Heroic victory.
The battle odds were 2:3 against me which is nothing impossible to win especially because my leading commander had more command points.(I attacked the weaker general) Also his army consisted mostly out of spearmen which are bad in autoresolve while I had 50% Uruk-Hai which are incredible in autoresolve.
I was somehow tempted to upload a save were I got a draw even though I would probably still lose my entire army just to get the hotseat going again. Now it would look like I agree that I did something unfair which isn't the case.

[Gallus]

OK seriously, who admins this? Admin please take a look at the save and make a decision or this HS will die.

[Aldor]

Admin is WK and he seems away. Get a new admin?

When I did it with random movements from the beginning I got way better results like average defeat, draw and clear victory.

Could you just check yourself if you can win within 5 reloads when you try it 2 times. If you can do that, I could have it checked later on and continue the HS.

However if the (new) admin would later judge against you, you should be punished very severely. So try it as an admin would and report.


But as I've asked before, isn't there any unbiased player which can perform a quick check. Just recieve pass, download save and try some times?!

[Nice]

Could you just check yourself if you can win within 5 reloads when you try it 2 times. If you can do that, I could have it checked later on and continue the HS.

Well it can workout, but I don't think that I would get the victory always. If I am lucky the admin gets the victory but it's just like a gamble.
I will try to get a draw and do the turn with it.

Took a bit longer then expected because I couldn't enter the forum in the last thirty minutes(Internal server error)

[Aldor]

Thanks.

OotMM up!

[knicolas2]

Rhun up

[Gallus]

God damn autoresolve...

[knicolas2]

God damn autoresolve...

Now you know how i feel as eriador

[StealthFox]

Mordor!

[Dwarven Berserker]

Seems like I made one little mistake which could very well kill me... Let's hope the RNG is with me today.

Dale up!

[The Norseman]

Uhm Isengard kind of abused a "bug", I am not sure if it is allowed or not, because I thought we did not allow it or was that another hotseat? ... Anyways my army was in an ambush and then he used his warg-rider unit, and note, only one single unit to draw my enitre army out of the woods and come close enough for his other stack to attack. That way removing all of my advantage of the ambush bonus because my general also had a +1 command in ambushes.... I thought this was not allowed? Or am I wrong here?

[Aldor]

Uhm Isengard kind of abused a "bug", I am not sure if it is allowed or not, because I thought we did not allow it or was that another hotseat? ... Anyways my army was in an ambush and then he used his warg-rider unit, and note, only one single unit to draw my enitre army out of the woods and come close enough for his other stack to attack. That way removing all of my advantage of the ambush bonus because my general also had a +1 command in ambushes.... I thought this was not allowed? Or am I wrong here?

I brought it up for Aldor's HS, but the idea was discarded as noone seemed to have an issue with it.

[Gallus]

OK seriously, I'm sick of this. Why do we bother having rules if they are not on the first page and no one respects them? If you need an admin I can do it (if someone else plays Rhun, that is). I can tell you, violation of the rules will be punished so severely that no one will do it twice. Though Norseman, this is also your fault, all rules should be on the first page. It's easy to claim that you did not know this particular rule applies this HS if it is not on the first page. It just cannot go on like this, we have no admin and players cannot agree wether a rule was broken or not, it leads nowhere.

[Aldor]

OK seriously, I'm sick of this. Why do we bother having rules if they are not on the first page and no one respects them? If you need an admin I can do it (if someone else plays Rhun, that is). I can tell you, violation of the rules will be punished so severely that no one will do it twice. Though Norseman, this is also your fault, all rules should be on the first page. It's easy to claim that you did not know this particular rule applies this HS if it is not on the first page. It just cannot go on like this, we have no admin and players cannot agree wether a rule was broken or not, it leads nowhere.

I agree that we need an active admin and clearly states rules. We shouldn't start punishing more harshly, we just need to state clearly what is allowed and what isn't.

(But then again, I'm probably already infamous for my contstant updating of front pages and rule sections. )

[Nice]

I used this in AoM and Dux said that it is allowed and that he also uses it.
I assumed that it is allowed in this hotseat as well.

[The Norseman]

True... Does anybody know if we officially implemented some rules? If I remember correctly EoH and Aldor wanted some to be implemented some time ago, but dont remember if they were...

And so the men of Dale must retreat, because the armies of Isengard used cheap tricks to snatch the victory from our hands... Shame on me for not expecting that sort of move... Dwarves up!

[Gallus]

I think punishments for breaking a rule that is clearly written on the first page should be done by the admin, only because it will prevent any future rule breaking. If you break a rule and get heavily fined you won't do it again. Of course, all rules must be written on the first page. If I remember correctly, we did not implement that rule, though we should implement a nerfed version of it - an army can be lured forward by intentional losing for only 1 square. If we do not implement this then horrible exploits can happen (like using all movement points of that army by sacrificing worthless units).

[knicolas2]

So s there any candidate for becoming admin.. and who has the admin password except witchking?

[The Norseman]

Only WK has the pass. I think he has been on vacation.