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Thread: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

  1. #21
    Signifer
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    In case the OP would like to avoid the Orclike trait without altering the game; i.e., playing within the original parameters; Here is my advice:

    1 - The Orclike trait has a no-going-back level of 1, so you will not be able to get rid of it once you have it, however, Orclike does have anti-traits: BloodHumour, PhlegmHumour, Rational, Guardian, and Artisan. If you have one of these anti-traits beyond the no-going-back level this should protect your general from the Orclike trait.

    2 - The most sure-fire and convenient way to avoid the Orclike trait is to use armies with no general to exterminate/enslave cities. In the alternative you could designate one general, preferably one with poor governing traits, to be your go-to exterminator/enslaver. This general will get very bad influence, but likely also some impressive looting bonuses.

    3 - Extermination is not the only way to deal with large cities and, if you want to play a men-of-the-west faction in character, you may wish to explore some other methods:

    a - Plague: You can use an extensive spy network to acquire the plague from an afflicted city and
    apply it large cities prior to acquisition. Be careful not to mix these infected spies with your own
    cities and troops, and do not capture the city until the plague has run its course.

    b - Black and True Numenoreans: These generals have a -10 to squalor and may make the difference in
    being able to manage a newly acquired city. Probably a temporary solution until unrest drops since
    this governor will cause population to continue to grow.

    c - Have others do the dirty work: You can manipulate your allies and your enemies into doing
    exterminations for you. The AI seems to exterminate with a great deal more prejudice than
    necessary, so if you let the AI capture a large city it will probably kill off the population for you.

    d - Rioting and Sabotage: The least effective due to the relatively small size of the map on this mod.
    Only a viable option on the very periphery of empires. A combination of spy infiltration (a max of
    three spies for this effect), sabotage of happiness and health/growth buildings, and conversion of
    the population away from that of the controlling faction. Throwing in a siege should help. This
    method is impractical, even on large maps, due to the expense of units involved and the limited
    number of citizens which tend to be lost each round.

    Exercising these options will slow down your empire growth considerably, but will also make the game considerably more interesting.

  2. #22
    Anakarsis's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Tolkien said "in the Great War, we all became Orcs". I think that this clarifies the idea. THe trait is good as it is, definitly.

  3. #23
    Elphir of Dol Amroth's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    This trait annoys me to the point where I specifically remove my general from the army for a turn so that this army can exterminate the city and thus allow the general to not get this trait. I understand that exterminating settlements is indeed Orc-like, but would it be possible to not get this trait if you exterminate settlements like Dunchrioch, Dunhold, Minas Ithil, Durthang and Barad-Eden if they have Orcish buildings? Since than in essence the population is Orcish (for the most part)?

  4. #24
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    The issue has been brought up many times, so the trait has been reviewed and redone for DoM.

  5. #25
    slew-foot devil's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    I hope reviewed and redone doesn't mean removed and retired. I'm agreeing with the majority of posters in this thread that this trait may be harsh, but reasonably so, especially given that Tolkien quote presented by Anakarsis.

  6. #26
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    The particular term might actually be dropped (it presents certain difficulties), but the concept will not. That is, every culture views certain actions as undesirable, and for the "good guys" exterminating/enslaving is one such example, so when it happens, the character that commits the action gets a prestige (authority, influence, succession priority, etc) penalty. Other cultures might see extermination of an enemy settlement as a very cool thing...

  7. #27
    Peredhel's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elphir of Dol Amroth View Post
    I understand that exterminating settlements is indeed Orc-like, but would it be possible to not get this trait if you exterminate settlements like Dunchrioch, Dunhold, Minas Ithil, Durthang and Barad-Eden if they have Orcish buildings? Since than in essence the population is Orcish (for the most part)?
    Tolkien stated that Elves thougt even Orcs shouldn't be killed if they surrender, though he also says that Orcs surrending was quite rare and that even when it happened it was quite common for Elves to kill their Orc prisoners. Orcs are evil creatures, unable of anything but hate, but they also have children, I don't think that slaughtering weak Orc slaves, female-Orcs and Orcs children is a really "cool" thing wathever the situation. Now it's about how "rolpelay" you are.

  8. #28
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peredhel View Post
    Tolkien stated that Elves thougt even Orcs shouldn't be killed if they surrender, though he also says that Orcs surrending was quite rare and that even when it happened it was quite common for Elves to kill their Orc prisoners. Orcs are evil creatures, unable of anything but hate, but they also have children, I don't think that slaughtering weak Orc slaves, female-Orcs and Orcs children is a really "cool" thing wathever the situation. Now it's about how "rolpelay" you are.
    The thing is, if it is turned off for one faction, no faction can exterminate. It is impossible with the game engine.

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