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Thread: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

  1. #1
    Vincent Liong's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    can someone point out how to get rid of that annoying Orc Like trait? it's hard to do anything without exterminating, and my Rohan generals keep getting that traits, thanks.

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    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Exterminating a whole city is pretty orc-like, isn't it?
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


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    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    I think that you hadn’t come here for moral lectures how exterminating the whole populace (in reality) is wrong, thus there is perfect reason for that trait. I guess that you are looking for a console cheat (~) to remove that trait. I normally don’t cheat in my games, but I have looked a bit into the game’s text files and I think that cheat should go something like that:
    Code:
    give_trait "General's name in quotes" "OrcLike" 0
    I hope this will help you.

    Edit: Otherwise, you could remove that trait from the game's text files manually.
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 09, 2012 at 08:04 AM.





  4. #4
    Vincent Liong's Avatar Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    no I didn't want to know why it was at the place, Rohirrim exterminating rebellious dunlendings and Easterlings are definitely not orc like as they kill men of darkness, not men of the west. I want to ask if possible someone has eliminating the trait somehow, thanks.

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    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Liong View Post
    I want to ask if possible someone has eliminating the trait somehow, thanks.
    I’m glad if it helped.

    no I didn't want to know why it was at the place, Rohirrim exterminating rebellious dunlendings and Easterlings are definitely not orc like as they kill men of darkness, not men of the west.
    Ah, if you insist...

    Ok, hypothetical (- unreal, of course) situation: You are a Rohirrim general in Middle–earth and go to war with Dunlandings. So, in your opinion it is right thing to exterminate populace of a city (i.e. kill and pillage nearly all inhabitants including helpless women and children) just because they are Man of the Darkness? That would be nearly as to say e.g. that it would be perfectly valid and morally justified if Allies in WWII killed nearly all the populace of the Third Reich because they were ALL “evil and Nazi”. The things are nearly similar. Part of the people was seduced by the (evil) ideology and promises, part was scared by the militaristic regime to have any objections, part tried to object and failed miserably, part was “all the same”, and in part of the people regime and war brings the worst of them out. Percentages are what make the difference. Of course, I’m not telling you how to play, and good guys did bad things, but I think that those deeds would not be looked as good by them. You can read Tolkien’s letters and see what he considered Orc-like, and killing innocent people IS Orc-like.





  6. #6
    Aikanár's Avatar yippee ki yay
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    First of all, welcome to TWC Vincent Liong and enjoy your stay!

    If you download the two files attached to this post and copy the:
    • export_descr_character_traits.txt
      to your-rome-folder\bi\ci\data
    • export_VnVs.txt
      to your-rome-folder\bi\ci\data\text

    you won't be bothered with the trait no more.

    I've out commented the trait and it's triggers. If you ever want to have it back, just search for "comment" and erase the ";" or "¬" in the commented section - or simply make a backup of your original files

    Enjoy FA:TW and enjoy TWC.
    Last edited by Aikanár; October 28, 2012 at 02:59 AM.


    Son of Louis Lux, brother of MaxMazi, father of Squeaks and Makrell, house of Siblesz

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    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Liong View Post
    no I didn't want to know why it was at the place, Rohirrim exterminating rebellious dunlendings and Easterlings are definitely not orc like as they kill men of darkness, not men of the west. I want to ask if possible someone has eliminating the trait somehow, thanks.
    Now, THAT IS orc-like.

    Since you call the Dunlendings rebellious, I assume the Scottish, Irish, Polish, etc. were not fighting for their freedom, too?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    That would be nearly as to say e.g. that it would be perfectly valid and morally justified if Allies in WWII killed nearly all the populace of the Third Reich because they were ALL “evil and Nazi”. The things are nearly similar. Part of the people was seduced by the (evil) ideology and promises, ...
    Put it the other way round. Follow Nazi-propaganda and claim that communism is evil, that slavic people are of less worth and all the other racist .
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


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    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    I think he's not interested in the morality of the thing, but rather how to get rid of the trait.


    If you want to get rid of the trait, there's no need to remove all its traces from the game, just open export_descr_character_traits.txt and find the following section:
    Code:
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest EnslavePopulation
    
        Condition IsGeneral
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 16
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like2_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest ExterminatePopulation
    
        Condition IsGeneral
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 22
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like2b_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest ExterminatePopulation
    
        Condition IsGeneral
              and not FactionType empire_east
              and not FactionType huns
              and not FactionType goths
              and not FactionType saxons
              and not FactionType sarmatians
              and CharacterIsLocal
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 22
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like3_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest ExterminatePopulation
    
        Condition IsGeneral
              and FactionType empire_east
              and CharacterIsLocal
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 90
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like4_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest ExterminatePopulation
    
        Condition IsGeneral
              and FactionType huns
              and CharacterIsLocal
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 75
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like5_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest ExterminatePopulation
    
        Condition IsGeneral
              and FactionType goths
              and CharacterIsLocal
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 65
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Trigger orc_like6_vnv_trigger
        WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    
        Condition Trait HasPlayedAtOrcs >= 1
    
        Affects OrcLike  1  Chance  0 ; 33
    
    ;------------------------------------------
    Out-comment the chance values and replace them with 0.

  9. #9
    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Put it the other way round. Follow Nazi-propaganda and claim that communism is evil, that slavic people are of less worth and all the other racist .
    Now I’m going off topic, but I hadn’t understood you at all? Could you more explain what you have meant in your previous post? Who’s following Nazi ideology? Hey, I don't know if it is some kind of misunderstanding or I had unintentionally written something wrong, or what? I gave him an example that even if “good guys” do crime against “bad guys” it is still a crime (hence morally wrong), and that all populace of any totalitarian regime isn’t fault for the existing condition or simplistically “evil”. I hope that I’m not accused for Nazism...

    Edit:

    After reading your post ten times in a row I can say only: What on Earth… Are you serious? If I had in this 100 posts and approximately two months leave an impression of an empty-headed, hate-indoctrinated, chauvinistic racist/fascist I beg, but really BEG administrators to delete my account with all my posts and rid of my wretched presence from this forum for all eternity.

    You had misread my post. I will now clearly explain what I meant:

    That would be nearly as to say ( what Vincent Liong said, and I’m clearly explaining why he is wrong with righteousness of extermination of Men of Darkness in reality) e.g. that it would be perfectly valid and morally justified if (as hypothetical, imaginary situation – example) Allies in WWII killed nearly all the populace of the Third Reich because they (inhabitants of the Third Reich) were ALL “evil and Nazi” (generalisation). The things are nearly similar (with them and supposed extermination of Dunlandings or Easterners by Rohirrim). Part of the people was seduced by the (evil) ideology (I don’t know what you don’t understand, they were clearly seduced, but that doesn’t justify them...) and promises (economic growth after WWI), part was scared by the militaristic regime to have any objections (clearly there was some point in having Gestapo- fear factor), part tried to object and failed miserably (e.g. Rommer, Stauffenberg, Bussche-Streithorst ...) , part was “all the same” (I meant indifferent), and in part of the people regime and war brings the worst of them out (worst kind, and that doesn’t justify them at all). Percentages are what make the difference (prevalence of “evil indoctrinated factor” or “scared factor” in the state).
    So, am I Nazi???

    I was not prepared...
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 10, 2012 at 03:15 PM.





  10. #10
    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Now I’m going off topic, but I hadn’t understood you at all? Could you more explain what you have meant in your previous post? Who’s following Nazi ideology? Hey, I don't know if it is some kind of misunderstanding or I had unintentionally written something wrong, or what? I gave him an example that even if “good guys” do crime against “bad guys” it is still a crime (hence morally wrong), and that all populace of any totalitarian regime isn’t fault for the existing condition or simplistically “evil”. I hope that I’m not accused for Nazism...
    No, of course I didn't want to accuse you.
    Your example simply makes use of the same argumentation as does Nazi propaganda: claiming to be the good guys and hence having the right to exterminate the bad guys.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


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    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    You have hugely misread my post – see above (Edit). That wasn't at all what I said… I said total opposite...

    Edit:

    I had said that Vincent Liong's argument about exterminating the Men of the Darkness is right becouse they are not Men of the West (that is what HE said, NOT I) would be like the Allies claiming total exterminating Germans in WWII (that never happened) was right because they were evil (generalization and demonization that again mostly didn’t happen). That was just an example (how WRONG it is). You know, you had really make me nervous (I'm red in my face from shame and mild anger that you could think something like that, and I'm slow to anger- see my signature). I was never accused for Nazism before...
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 10, 2012 at 04:26 PM.





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    Stark1's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    No, of course I didn't want to accuse you.
    Your example simply makes use of the same argumentation as does Nazi propaganda: claiming to be the good guys and hence having the right to exterminate the bad guys.
    You're really missing his point here.

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    Hamilicar's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    He isn't accusing you of being a Nazi... I have yet to see him do something like that on here.

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    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Sorry, I really don't get where all the confusion comes from.

    I think I made my point pretty clear:
    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    No, of course I didn't want to accuse you.
    If what you imply had indeed happened with this justification, the Allies had just used the same justification the Nazis used for their monstrous crimes. They would have been as nazi.

    Saying "We have to exterminate the Dunlendings because they are evil!" is the same as saying "We have to annihilate the Germans, because they're all Nazis!" is the same as saying "We have to exterminate the 'Untermensch' because they're of less worth than the Aryans and our sworn enemies!"

    It's orcish and thoroughly evil.

    After all it just depends on the POV: The Dunlendings could as well claim "We have to exterminate all the Forgoil, because they are robbers, stole our lands and they are evil!"
    Last edited by Thangaror; May 10, 2012 at 05:27 PM.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


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    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Sorry, I really don't get where all the confusion comes from.

    I think I made my point pretty clear:


    If what you imply had indeed happened with this justification, the Allies had just used the same justification the Nazis used for their monstrous crimes. They would have been as nazi.

    Saying "We have to exterminate the Dunlendings because they are evil!" is the same as saying "We have to annihilate the Germans, because they're all Nazis!" is the same as saying "We have to exterminate the 'Untermensch' because they're of less worth than the Aryans and our sworn enemies!"

    It's orcish and thoroughly evil.
    All right, but where did I said it? I said it also that it is wrong, with what I thought is a good example. Please read my posts again.

    Edit 1: Where did I justify anyone? Where did I justify slaughter and murders? I say nowhere. You have all the evidence here (on this page). Prove me wrong if you can. Seriously quote my statement that reveals my justification. There is obviously huge misunderstanding...

    Edit 2: If you find it, I demand that administrators penalize me because that would be serious violation of TWC rules.
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 10, 2012 at 06:17 PM.





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    The Despondent Mind's Avatar Auxiliarius
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    That's very annoying about Tolkin , you only have WHITE-BLACK /GOOD-EVIL .

  17. #17
    Ulrich Liechtenstein's Avatar Kabe difendā
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    well High fantasy is communly depicted as the struggles from good vs evil. Even George RR Martin has some of that.

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    athanaric's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Edit 2: If you find it, I demand that administrators penalize me because that would be serious violation of TWC rules.
    Guys, just drop it. It's a silly misunderstanding, nothing more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uber Mind View Post
    That's very annoying about Tolkin , you only have WHITE-BLACK /GOOD-EVIL .
    No.
    What Tolkien lacks, though, is nihilism or moral relativism which some people, including writers, consider "cool".
    Last edited by athanaric; May 10, 2012 at 06:44 PM.

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    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    All right, but where did I said it? I said it also that it is wrong, with what I thought is a good example. Please read my posts again.

    Edit 1: Where did I justify anyone? Where did I justify slaughter and murders? I say nowhere. You have all the evidence here (on this page). Prove me wrong if you can. Seriously quote my statement that reveals my justification. There is obviously huge misunderstanding...
    You do both nowhere?
    And nowhere I claim you did so.

    Do you REALLY think that I insinuate you said such things somewhere?

    It's subjunctive!
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


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    Conqistador's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Why I can't exterminate without get Orc Like traits?

    Stop this , it was just a misunderstanding, you're getting into a discussion about morale while the guy only wanted to know how to remove the traits.
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