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Thread: The truth about slavery

  1. #1

    Default The truth about slavery

    Many people think the Civil War was all about slavery.

    Many people think that the War was fought to free the slaves.

    Here are some Facts about slavery...

    There was slavery in the North for 200 years, dating back to when the states were European colonies.

    All of the original 13 colonies had slavery.

    When the Civil War started and the Union invaded the South, the Union states of Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, New Jersey, and the capital of the Union, Washington DC, still had slavery.

    After the war was over there was still slavery in the Union.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Actually the war was partly about slavery, because one of the mane reasons the south declared secession was they didnt get equal represantation in congress (because the number of senetors or reps were based on the size of the population in each state). the south wanted to count thier slaves as part of the population, congress voted aganst it because the south had so many more slaves than the north, witch would shift the balance of power in favor of the south. fighting in congress continued like that untill the south had enof and we all know the rest.

    Also during the war the president ordered the Emancipation Proclamation witch granted freedom to all slave of the southern states. then in 1865 the same year the war ended the thirteenth amendment was adopted witch outlawed slavery.

  3. #3
    Don504's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    And most (or some) Union soldiers didn't fight to free slavery, but to defend the country; These people just couldn't let the Union fall.

    Explore the word and conquer it all.


  4. #4

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    While many issues led to the civil war, Slavery was probably the biggest. It had caused a divide between the north and the south for at least 100 years. Many northerners (and some southerners) hated slavery and wanted it either abolished or cordoned to where it already existed. While southern officials (mostly aristocrat slave owners) pushed for its expansion, this caused infighting and bad blood between the two sides. Though its clear that the war had nothing to do with slavery until the emancipation proclamation.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Major_Threat View Post
    While many issues led to the civil war, Slavery was probably the biggest. It had caused a divide between the north and the south for at least 100 years. Many northerners (and some southerners) hated slavery and wanted it either abolished or cordoned to where it already existed. While southern officials (mostly aristocrat slave owners) pushed for its expansion, this caused infighting and bad blood between the two sides. Though its clear that the war had nothing to do with slavery until the emancipation proclamation.
    This. Slavery was a contentious even before the constitution was radified. In fact, the whole point of the electoral college for presidental elections was that slave owning southerns would have an equal say in elections since a larger portion of their population was slaves, but those slaves only counted as 2/3rds a person. Maybe for the individual soldiers, the war wasn't about slavery (more adventure in the beginning and just dermination to see it finished toward the end), but for the legislators and wealthier citizens who had the power, ie the people who actually start wars, you better believe it was about slavery.

  6. #6
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    while I do understand Scamp's post, I think it is not as nearly elaborate as the message he want's to communicate to us is...

    To say that ACW was all about the slavery, or had nothing with slavery is imo understatement in both cases. While the War itself wasn't about freeing slaves it had more or less everything with the slavery.

    Prior the War, there were already hard fought political battles concerning the admission of territories as states to US. for most part of the 19th Century, there was a balance with similar number of states allowing and slave free. However, with prospect of these new territories being admitted to the US, problems showed up. If South allowed for all the territories are admitted as slave free states, they knew the Institution of Slavery is bound to be destroyed on Constitutional level. Southern political elites (I say elites on purpose) weren't ready to risk such a development so they pushed the Federal Institutions and Legislation to the limits.

    Compromises that were made before the War, were in fact disastrous, and imo only encouraged the beginning of the War. Had Southern Elites used the same legal knowledge and craftness thes used when after the War all slaves were freed and they passed Black Codes that put blacks into position near slavery, War altogether would have been averted. Abolish the slavery, but pass State Law's that aren't giving blacks any-more rights than the ones in the Constitution (although Black Codes denied even some of those)...

    The War was the price that the South had to pay for allowing handful of population (under 2%) to lead their politics... The price that was payed by common-men blood...

  7. #7

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    All historians agree that slavery was one of the reasons but not the only one. Moreover the issue of slavery itself had many points of view. Except the humanitarian attitude there was a strong -and perhaps more important- economic dimension.

    South based its economy in agriculture while North on a rapidly developing industry. Slaves are good enough (if not perfect) for agricultural work but not for labours in industrial production. Working in a factory demands some basic knowledge of handling machines, tools, strong feeling of team work, to be a part of a plan or product line, adopt objectives, etc. These necessary minimal skills could not be obtained by slaves, excluded from basic rights, like a basic education, etc., while the relation between employer-employee was completely different than that of master-slave.

    North industries needed hundreds of thousands of new workers and slaves were not good enough for that. Industrial development and era found to be incompatible with slavery...
    Last edited by husserlTW; May 09, 2012 at 11:15 AM.




  8. #8

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Slavery was the reason the war started, but not the reasons the majority of Southern Soldiers fought for. Same goes for Northerners, most did not fight for freeing the slaves. It was a classic example of Rich Man's war, Poor Man's fight.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Same procedere as every war: Young men have to fight and die because old men can´t agree or do a tradeoff.

    Btw, i feel enslaved by the mod.

  10. #10
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by husserlTW View Post
    North industries needed hundreds of thousands of new workers and slaves were not good enough for that. Industrial development and era found to be incompatible with slavery...
    but there was a general "fear" from freed blacks taking over white's jobs in the North. Working Northmen was attracted to the fact that some poor freed black would come up North and take over his work...

    Industrial development and slavery would go hand in hand with slavery (luckily they didn't). The profits of companies would be astronomical if they indeed used slave labor and not payed workers. It is one of rare occasions when morale and common sense swayed over profit...

  11. #11
    CyberFist's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    If you are really curious about slavery in the US, read this

    http://dailykenn.blogspot.com.au/201...hat-first.html

    Sources are included.

  12. #12
    Robertclive's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    It was about slavery bro

  13. #13

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertclive View Post
    It was about slavery bro
    If your not trolling read the posts above ...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by husserlTW View Post
    All historians agree that slavery was one of the reasons but not the only one. Moreover the issue of slavery itself had many points of view. Except the humanitarian attitude there was a strong -and perhaps more important- economic dimension.

    South based its economy in agriculture while North on a rapidly developing industry. Slaves are good enough (if not perfect) for agricultural work but not for labours in industrial production. Working in a factory demands some basic knowledge of handling machines, tools, strong feeling of team work, to be a part of a plan or product line, adopt objectives, etc. These necessary minimal skills could not be obtained by slaves, excluded from basic rights, like a basic education, etc., while the relation between employer-employee was completely different than that of master-slave.

    North industries needed hundreds of thousands of new workers and slaves were not good enough for that. Industrial development and era found to be incompatible with slavery...
    I'm going more with this, what Husserl says above.
    While slavery was a "welcome" political theme which divided camps, economy was the real reason, of course not for the masses, but for the politicians who saw the present period and viewed into the future.
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    AUG351's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Also most Southern men and boys joined up because they wanted to fight for their homes and families and most Northen men and boys joined because of patriotism and keeping the Union togeather. Many who joined on both sides were just kids, arround 18 19 20 years some even as young as 15 or 16 who wanted to fight because they were seeking something glorious or honorable. The soldiers fight wasn't over slavery at all, most Southern soldiers never owned slaves and there were free blacks fighting for the South with white soldiers when Union blacks fought in seperate regiments with less pay.

  16. #16
    jackwei's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Slavery indeed was a big part as it was regarded as the southern way of life and their economy was agricultural that survived upon manual labor, but in truth the south bullied the northern senators into concessions by outnumbering them in states and threatening succession if they didn't get their way especially South Carolina.

    The new lands acquired from the American-Mexican War that prohibited slavery like California offended the South, but some can say really it was the John Brown raid and the expansion of free states to equal the slave states in terms of numbers so the South can be challenged in the Senate and House in terms of votes.

    This time the Southern Slaves States wouldn't get its way so they would have compromise this time instead of the Northern States, which made the rich gentlemen in the South feel threatened and in term their way of life will disappear especially with the election of Abraham Lincoln, so succession they believed was the only option to protect their way of life as they felt the federal government didn't do enough to protect slavery as i said earlier the John Brown Raid lit the fire that raged into an inferno not long after.

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  17. #17

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by shokh View Post
    Same procedere as every war: Young men have to fight and die because old men can´t agree or do a tradeoff.

    Btw, i feel enslaved by the mod.
    Secession is strictly prohibited !

    Quote Originally Posted by Minas Moth View Post
    Industrial development and slavery would go hand in hand with slavery (luckily they didn't). The profits of companies would be astronomical if they indeed used slave labor and not payed workers.
    "The profits of companies would be astronomical" if slaves could be productive in industrial environment. But they could not for several reasons. Slaves lack education and thus technical skills. You cannot base the need for certain amount of daily production on exhausted personnel. The absence of a slave in a farm because of death, disease, exhaustion, special "treatment" of supervisors, etc. can be easily replaced by another slave or not replaced at all. In industry you need to train again a new worker. In agriculture you need more the slave's strength and less (if not at all) the working mind. In industry you need equal and in many case more the working mind than physical strength. And you can not have slaves with working minds because then you will face something more devastating than a strike...

    I could mention many more reasons like where the slave-workers would leave? What is gonna happen when the industrial would close, bankrupt etc., or even more "delicate" like the importance of production-fee connection, the marketing, etc..
    Last edited by husserlTW; May 11, 2012 at 08:21 AM.




  18. #18

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    The south thought there rights were being trampled on and they did what they thought the Declaration of Independence meant. Where it says:
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

    They viewed the North as tyannis and wanted to form a new government. On the other hand the North saw this as a violation of the Constiution and did not believe the South had the right to succeed.
    This what the constitution says in Article 1 section 10:
    1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
    2: No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
    3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay anyDuty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

    So Slavery was part of the issue that the South believed that they had the right to choose for themselves and not the nation as a whole. While the North believed they did not have that right.
    Last edited by OneEyeMick; May 11, 2012 at 11:21 AM.

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  19. #19
    Minas Moth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by husserlTW View Post
    "The profits of companies would be astronomical" if slaves could be productive in industrial environment. But they could not for several reasons. Slaves lack education and thus technical skills. You cannot base the need for certain amount of daily production on exhausted personnel. The absence of a slave in a farm because of death, disease, exhaustion, special "treatment" of supervisors, etc. can be easily replaced by another slave or not replaced at all. In industry you need to train again a new worker. In agriculture you need more the slave's strength and less (if not at all) the working mind. In industry you need equal and in many case more the working mind than physical strength. And you can not have slaves with working minds because then you will face something more devastating than a strike...

    I could mention many more reasons like where the slave-workers would leave? What is gonna happen when the industrial would close, bankrupt etc., or even more "delicate" like the importance of production-fee connection, the marketing, etc..
    and you think they couldn't be?they were slaves, not stupid. I believe, had they come to this they would soon figure out that by investing some time to educate slave to work on one machine is less costly than having payed worker until pension. To put it in perspective. by today standards, I'm not much of a factory worker. in fact, my factory skills could be comparable to that of a person that never set foot in industrial factory (as slaves haven't). But, during my summer job last year, I had to learn to work on all the top tech machines in brew factory in a month, or else I would be "fired". I'm only a student, so I work under "protection" of the state and university, but this didn't stop the brewery to train me for the work I wasn't trained for (average worker trains from 3-6 months) because I am less expensive than full time worker. This is 21st Century, and we are talking about one of big European brewing companies...

    you understand what I'm talking about? In US, slaves had better treatment then in most of the world, they were better fed (and larger than anywhere else; as numerous accounts show) and were capable of mastering tasks of working in industry. Back then, factory wasn't what it is today, there was a lot of manual work present, and not much brains was needed for it. As it isn't today, once you learn what you are supposed to do, it is pretty simple after-wards, and your work is basically troubleshooting if machine stops. But back then, machines weren't that complicated. And in every factory there always were and are jobs that machine simply can't handle. some pit to clean, some hand packaging to be made. and how smart you hae to be for that? not very much, trust me, I've done all those jobs, and was thinking about 100 other things when doing them.

    Even the Unuion wasn't to enthusiastic on employing freed slaves ore blacks in factories. they were seen as bread-snatchers by whites, and as such presented danger to elected officials. If they supported employment of blacks, they could easily loose next election if to much whites would had lost their jobs.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The truth about slavery

    Have any of you actually read the Declaration of the Cause of the Seceding States? Or the Cornerstone Speech by CSA VP Alexander Stephens? If so, you would have no doubt that the main reason the southern states seceded was to preserve slavery.

    Georgia's reason for seceding: "The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery ...."

    Mississippi: "In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. ...."

    South Carolina: "The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

    This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River. The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States. The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. ... Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection. ..."

    Texas: "We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

    That in this free government *all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights* [emphasis in the original]; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states."

    http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Georgia

    And here's an excerpt from the infamous cornerstone speech:

    The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. ...

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/l...cumentprint=76

    So, I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that the main reason the South seceded was to keep black people in chains.
    Last edited by ambien; May 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM.

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