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Thread: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

  1. #1
    Lord Romanus III's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    "Use of faction portals, public portals, and fleeing back to the No-PvP Zone around Portal Towers while in combat is not allowed. This will be dealt with in the same manner as logging off in combat: you are not allowed to log off, or flee through portals or into no-PvP Zones, while fighting an enemy. As a rule of thumb, you still count as "fighting them" if they're chasing you, or if they're at your base.

    The spirit of the server is about fair play and honest fights. The few luxuries we afford the playerbase (faction portals, small safe zones around the portals for spawn protection) can easily be revoked if they continue to be misused. Fight fairly, die fairly if needs be, don't abuse the tools we give you for convenience."
    Last edited by Poach; May 05, 2012 at 09:31 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Great addition!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Sexcellent.

  4. #4
    mp0295's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    I like this addition, but I want to see a bit more on the "in combat part". I realize that it is entirely subject. What if en enemy is in my lands, but hasn't engaged me yet? Would it be allowed to evac some stuff through a portal?


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  5. #5
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    It is indeed very subjective and therefore hard to draw a line without becoming ridiculously technical, which is impractical.

    Just try to be fair: the portals are there to give you some convenience not to help you fight wars. If you're fighting a war and running back to the Safe Zone to avoid fights you're not playing fair.

    We've tried to leave some leeway in that rule so that you can evacuate to the Safe Zone if you want to if you know they're coming and you can't win, but can't if you're fighting and know you're losing.

    Earlier draft versions of the rule discussed that if, for example, you're about to hit an enemy base and the 1 guy inside it goes through the portal, that's ok, but if there's 2+ enemies in their base and they suddenly decide to have a faction party in the Safe Zone coincidentally as you guys are arriving at their base, they clearly saw you and they're clearly just trying to avoid a fight which is abusing the portal, as without it they'd be forced to flee over land, which would let you chase them.

    The "rule of thumb" we settled on we think is fair to all involved: if you get advanced warning and want to avoid the battle you can retreat, but if the battle has begun you can't.

    Worst case scenario is admins will put a block of bedrock over the portal platforms of factions that continually push the technicalities of this rule. We're in this for fair play not by-the-book playing. If a faction is being generally abusive with their portals to avoid fights we'll just block the portals for the duration of the war.
    Last edited by Poach; May 05, 2012 at 09:35 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    While I would preferred a more expansive solution (hopefully that will also receive attention over the summer), this is a great improvement.

    A question though: If you log into your base with enemies there, I understand you can't use the portal. But if you get killed, and your bed is in the same area, would it then be legal to go through?
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  7. #7
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Sama: What do you mean by more expansive? Detail your idea, we're always on the lookout for ways to refine what rules we need to impose.

    As for deaths in that manner, the usual applies: You can't be spawn killed, so if you stay by your bed you won't be harmed, if you leave you're fair game. It's up to your captors at that point as to whether or not they'll contest you making for your portal.

  8. #8
    Pat89's Avatar Northman™
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    I thought this server would have less rules and just rely on the "spirit of the game"...

    You can just as well start copying over all community server rules. No doubt there will be incidents in the future where those other rules will be needed too.


    About the rule itself, imo if you fight near the portal, it's your own fault people will make use of it. If you fight a defensive battle, you will have this advantage yourself. You don't want the attacker to pop in and out the portal? Place a block on it and problem solved. I don't need another rule for that.
    Last edited by Pat89; May 05, 2012 at 01:24 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Perhaps if you guys weren't abusing the portal the mod team wouldn't have to introduce these rules.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    Sama: What do you mean by more expansive? Detail your idea, we're always on the lookout for ways to refine what rules we need to impose.
    In the sense of a) increasing the penalties of creating a far-off base, and preferably b) making portals less of an immediate form of travel.

    I made a couple posts about it in the earlier discussion on portals and the Northmen's use thereof, but the best solution in my mind would be to remove private portals entirely in favor of continually open, and very expensive public portals - better if the server population grows of course, as it might detract SZ traffic if nations crowd around these portals.

    As for deaths in that manner, the usual applies: You can't be spawn killed, so if you stay by your bed you won't be harmed, if you leave you're fair game. It's up to your captors at that point as to whether or not they'll contest you making for your portal.
    Just to be clear, running for the portal from your spawn/bed wouldn't be punished, only you'd lose bed-spawn protection? If yes, sounds good
    Developer of The Great War | Leader of WW2: Sandstorm | Under the Woolen Patronage of Mitch | King of All

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    History has always been a bit of the State's slut.

  11. #11
    Pat89's Avatar Northman™
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsumoto View Post
    Perhaps if you guys weren't abusing the portal the mod team wouldn't have to introduce these rules.
    I edited my post:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat89 View Post
    You don't want the attacker to pop in and out the portal? Place a block on it and problem solved.
    If the dwarves had been smart enough to place a block on top of the portal we wouldn't have popped in and out (which on itself is seriously blown up, we did this once).

  12. #12
    abbews's Avatar The Screen Door Slams
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    I would prefer faction portals being banned while at war. If there's something that is "unbalanced" is that people who make their base 14k blocks from the safe zone can strike whenever they like it within minutes, while a counter attack would take half an hour, just to get there.

  13. #13
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Patrick, placing blocks ontop of the portal block was a stopgap solution because it bugs the players who use it. You will spawn within that block, doing damage to yourself requiring relogging to correct. It worked well as a temporary control measure until we could organise something against it but wasn't suitable as a long-term solution because it just leaves people stuck inside blocks.

    Furthermore, it doesn't stop people running away through portals to avoid fights they don't think they can win. This has very little to do with the Northmen using the portal to stage harrassment raids on the Coalition while in your base, this is addressing the entire question of the place of the Safe Zone and portals during war.

    We don't want people using the Safe Zone to avoid fights, full stop. This prevents that entirely, and doesn't put upon the attacking force the extremely unrealistic demand of beating the defenders to their own portal block to prevent them simply fleeing there if they don't think they can win.

    Over the summer when we write our own plugin we might get more inventive with how this is done. An idea was to make the faction portal like a nether portal, with a period of several seconds (more like 10) before teleporting you (eg kind of like what Sama said) or the portal simply shutting down during wars. It's not been discussed in detail yet.

    Certainly this one fixes people fleeing to avoid fights. Next on the list indeed is the advantage you get from being very far away from everything else but still having a faction portal to make travel to enemy bases easy. We don't want to disable faction portals entirely if we can help it, because it isolates the Safe Zone. Perhaps isolation is what it needs, though: commerce is already dying there.

    Perhaps removal of faction portals, leaving only public portals which cannot be blocked. If a faction wants to live far away and use a portal, everyone gets to use it. I don't know. Discussion will have to be had.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by abbews View Post
    I would prefer faction portals being banned while at war. If there's something that is "unbalanced" is that people who make their base 14k blocks from the safe zone can strike whenever they like it within minutes, while a counter attack would take half an hour, just to get there.
    Did we make you build your base where you did?

    No, we didn't.

    Did we realize that distance from the activity center of the server is a good thing for PvP?

    Yes, we did.

  15. #15
    Nerva's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    I think that just keeping the public ones will make it, factions can buy one between neighboors and avoid the selectiveness of private ones, thus working like the west, north or south portals, but to more remote locations available for anyone who wishes to go to that corner of the map. The turnslide could even be implemented to these public portals. I'm sure mods will find the best solution.
    Last edited by Nerva; May 05, 2012 at 04:20 PM.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    Patrick, placing blocks ontop of the portal block was a stopgap solution because it bugs the players who use it. You will spawn within that block, doing damage to yourself requiring relogging to correct. It worked well as a temporary control measure until we could organise something against it but wasn't suitable as a long-term solution because it just leaves people stuck inside blocks.

    Furthermore, it doesn't stop people running away through portals to avoid fights they don't think they can win. This has very little to do with the Northmen using the portal to stage harrassment raids on the Coalition while in your base, this is addressing the entire question of the place of the Safe Zone and portals during war.

    We don't want people using the Safe Zone to avoid fights, full stop. This prevents that entirely, and doesn't put upon the attacking force the extremely unrealistic demand of beating the defenders to their own portal block to prevent them simply fleeing there if they don't think they can win.

    Over the summer when we write our own plugin we might get more inventive with how this is done. An idea was to make the faction portal like a nether portal, with a period of several seconds (more like 10) before teleporting you (eg kind of like what Sama said) or the portal simply shutting down during wars. It's not been discussed in detail yet.

    Certainly this one fixes people fleeing to avoid fights. Next on the list indeed is the advantage you get from being very far away from everything else but still having a faction portal to make travel to enemy bases easy. We don't want to disable faction portals entirely if we can help it, because it isolates the Safe Zone. Perhaps isolation is what it needs, though: commerce is already dying there.
    Glad this is all being discussed I don't think the safezone needs to be further isolated though - surely with some creativity it could be revived (or maybe, restored to former height, is better). And some non-creative solutions too, such as one-time shop payments instead of renting.

    Perhaps removal of faction portals, leaving only public portals which cannot be blocked. If a faction wants to live far away and use a portal, everyone gets to use it. I don't know. Discussion will have to be had.
    That's exactly what I said So I agree of course.
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  17. #17
    mp0295's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Now I don't know how difficult this would be to code, but I'd suggest that you can't TP when an enemy is in a chunk owned by you. That would need to elaborated on a little, though.


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  18. #18

    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by mp0295 View Post
    Now I don't know how difficult this would be to code, but I'd suggest that you can't TP when an enemy is in a chunk owned by you. That would need to elaborated on a little, though.
    The main issue I see: factions could simply leave a ring of unclaimed land around their portal.

    Of course you could have entering their territory trigger a portal block for x amount of time, though that still wouldn't take into account whether that claim was even near the portal / main base. A more elegant solution might be to block portal use when an enemy is within a certain range, though like you I can't comment on the difficulty of doing this.
    Developer of The Great War | Leader of WW2: Sandstorm | Under the Woolen Patronage of Mitch | King of All

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Van Tromp View Post
    History has always been a bit of the State's slut.

  19. #19
    Tuor's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    Quote Originally Posted by King Sama View Post
    The main issue I see: factions could simply leave a ring of unclaimed land around their portal.

    Of course you could have entering their territory trigger a portal block for x amount of time, though that still wouldn't take into account whether that claim was even near the portal / main base. A more elegant solution might be to block portal use when an enemy is within a certain range, though like you I can't comment on the difficulty of doing this.
    Hmm, a similar function exists already for enemy mobs and trying to sleep in a bed (can't sleep while mob is nearby). Maybe someone who knows what they're doing could look into it.

  20. #20
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Announcement: Portal Use During PvP

    The difficulties would arise in having to change that function of Minecraft to players rather than mobs, and then linking it both to the portal plugin (to recognise what block is a portal) and to factions (to recognise enemy players).

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