Georgia - I need help

[cegorach]

I need help about Georgia after 1480 to 1700.

It includes:

military part - I have a decent unit roster, but it needs checking and revision for sure,

architecture of the are,

music - if possible,

historical characters - I have some info from Wikipedia, but it is not enough.

Generally - I had some support from a guy nicked Datka at the ORG, but he disappeared and because I need to revise Georgian roster and other information about this faction I really need support.

If you are interested please post it or PM me. Thank you.

Regards Cegorach

[Beka]

I would like help you but i cannot.

If you want i will contact a man who might help you

[Boudicca]

Is this MTW II specific or just a request for general information?

[cegorach]

The information will be used to update MTW VI edition of Pike & Musket TW mod and for MTW2 edition of this ( + maybe for OiM TW if necessary).

@Beka

That would surely help a lot. Please do it.

[Beka]

I have sent him a messag and waiting for a reply

[eltrevo]

This is just the kind of thread Kakhaber would have LOVED to spam in.

[Beka]

he said that he is banned on this forums but he gave me som links wich you might use.
http://www.iaphs.org/articles/urushadze.html
http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/GEORGIA.htm

[cegorach]

Very good pages, thank you !

Still the main problem is that I need more information about its military in 1480-1700.

I need someone who is able to do some research so living in Georgia itself with the obvious knowledge of the language.

Currently I have 6 unit roster, but I must make sure it is good enough.

Literally all or almost all other countries are ready - I have found even something about Norwegian army in this period or even Circassian one which is incredible.

Georgia is one of few reamining pieces.

If there is anyone knowing anything about it I will show the current unit roster and listen to his/her proposals.

Thank you.

BTW This was something really interesting

http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/image...nd/georpol.htm

Regards Cegoach

[Beka]

I have foound anther link wich you might use http://www.nplg.gov.ge/ic/library_e/gabeskiria/15.htm

About the research I would like to help you but I don't have time for that max time that I can spend is 1 hour

[cegorach]

The page is very good, the best I have seen about the georgian subject.

1 hour isn't bad - there is plenty of time, but I think a really helpful thing would be research in a library - in Georgia of course, hopefully there is somethingmore specific about the military part.

I might even send an e-mail to the Georgian government - most likely will be ignored, but I did similar thing before and have some results - I know two historians personally thanks to this perhaps too ... intrusive approach.

I will post the current Georgian roster from MTW mod soon.

Regards Cegorach :original:

[Beka]

I will not be able to research at library but i will help as I can

[cegorach]

Fine anyway.

Here is the georgian roster for PMTW 1.5 ( MTW)



Names are in Georgian and should stay this way - we are using names in national languages i.e. UKrainian for Cossacks, ussian for Russians, German for german states etc.

Speramen Mkhedrebi - Shubosani Mkhedrebi - Shubosani Mkhedari

Elite Mkhedrebi - Elite Mkhedrebi - Elite Mkhedari


Georgian Foot Warriors - Kveiti Meomrebi - Kveiti Meomari

Georgian riflemen - Metopheni - Metophe

Georgian Mountainers - Mtiulebi - Mtiuli

Aragvian Warriors - Aragvlebi - Aragveli



1.Speramen Mkhedrebi - cavalry with especially strong charge

3. Elite Mkhedrebi - cav. armed with sword and bow. They are a bit stronger than sword mkhedrebi in hand to hand fighting, and also have a bow. This is the royal unit

Infantry:

1. Georgian Foot Warriors - armes with sword. good average infantry.
2. Georgian riflemen - armed with rifle and sword. in hand-to hand fighting are similiar to the Foot Warriors. In shooting should have power of an average European unit, but have less unit's size.
3. Georgian Mountainers - armed with spear and shield. have good attack and very strong charge.
4. Aragvian Warriors - armed with sword and shield. very good charge an excellent attack.


I hva also office titles and only one historical hero - Giorgi Saakadze.

Revising the unit roster is the primary objective, the rest will follow later.

Regards Cegorach:original:

[Beka]

from what read there are two problems
1 mtiulebi if on horse should stay with spear and shield, but in casse of infantry they should have sword and bow
later bow should be changed with rifle and thet must have stats of elite unit
2 I dont see any unit of shubosnebi (pikeman)

[cegorach]

from what read there are two problems
1 mtiulebi if on horse should stay with spear and shield, but in casse of infantry they should have sword and bow
later bow should be changed with rifle and thet must have stats of elite unit


They are infantry, but god point to make them elite. Thanks !

2 I dont see any unit of shubosnebi (pikeman)

I didn't know about them. Remember that I can't add more units only replace one of the present here - whom ?

It made be done this way - in MTW edition there are periods with 3 different campaigns starting in 1480, 1572 and 1648 some of these can be removed/replaced in each one, but the first one should have all more important from the entire period because these will appear after reaching a certain year - if you played MTW you know what I mean.

In MTW2 this might happen too - although PMTW for MTW2 will start in 1570 - so you can propose similar changes and later when we will be able to judge how much can be done it will be implemented.
For now I generally use some assumptions like that the entire number of units possible to use in MTW2 engine will be 500 with 256 models only, fortunatelly I plan to start the mod in 1570 so it helps with all those earlier units I do not need to add anymore.

Overall.
We have 6 slots to use so only the most important and/or unique/interesting units can be used.

[Beka]

Ok then don't add pikemen.

What does historical hero mean?

[cegorach]

Famous person from history - general, priest, spy, assassin. Unfortunatelly I have one only for Georgia now comparing to 31 for Poland, 30 for France or 0 for Russia (no support).:original:

[Beka]

ather historical heroes can be Bidzina Cholokashvili,Shalva eristav of ksani, Elizbar eristav of ksani and Zezva Gafrindauli.
they were leaders of 1660 yaers rebelion during wich georgians at the same time attacked forts of Alaverdi and Bakhtrioni.
Bidzina Cholokashvili,Shalva eristav of ksani and Elizbar eristav of ksani leaded thier army to Alaverdi and at the same time Zezva Gafrindauli leaded Mtiuls army to Baqtrioni. when they attacked they made persians fleed to each ather and when they met they were Annihilated.

Tevdore Kvelateli.
when 1609 turks invaded kartli they wanted to kill king of kartli Luarsab II who was in fort of Ckhireti with few men. turks wanted to attack king befor he could join an army. but they didn't know the way so they anslaved a priest named Tevdore and ordered him to show the way, But tevdore took them buy the wrong way and buy that he gave king time to prepare for battle. when Turk found that out they killed Tevdore
I will look for some more

[cegorach]

The important thing about those personalities is to provide more information especially about generals - I mean anything useful to judge how good commanders they were, how well or bad they were at governing or simply preparing the army for battle (administration skills), their religious devotion/or lack of it and things like loyalty and how ruthless they were/or were not.
Generally enything which could make them better prepared for the game itself.
If there is a colourful portrait of one of them ( it might be a part of a larger painting) it is also very useful for the mod.

[cegorach]

I will give you an example - this is for MTW edition, but gatehered information might be easily used for MTW2 I am sure.

Giorgi Saakadze

Command 6 from 9 - very good commander as far as I know, but not legendary ( i.e. 7),

Piety - 2 - converted to islam so gets slightly less than avarage note.

Acumen - 6 - reformed the army, apparently good at it and was a governor for some time most likely successfully,

Dread - 4 - seems to be able to execute his will to impose it even in difficult situation,

Loyalty 3 - changed sides, ambitious even if patriotic, but harder to controll than some.

Character trait
- great leader which adds +6 to morale of the army.

This should be useful enough.

[Beka]

ok lets start with bidzina cholokashvili
command 4 from 9
Loyalty 5 he was very loyal
Acuman 3 he was good but not as good as Giorgi saakadze
Dread 4
piety 4
Zezva Gapridauli
command 4
Loyalty 5
acuman 2
Dread 6 he was mtiuli and those peaple dont know what fear is
piety 4
PS You need only generals or kings too.