AI sailed past a chokepoint, wtf?

[vallu751]

In my current Jozai game, I moved a fleet into the narrow strait just south of Edo harbor. It's such a narrow space that even the single fleet barely fits in it. I thought that would prevent the AI from blocking my port there.

But no. The AI just passed within hair's breadth of my ships on the campaign map and blockaded the port. How can that happen? I know I can't move past enemy fleets, have to move beyond that red circle. I don't see a circle around my ships, but surely they have one?

Any tips on how I can prevent the bazillion 1 or 2 ship fleets from laying waste to my ports all the time? Chasing them down isn't very effective since there are several new ones coming almost every turn. It's past RD on Legendary.

[IGdood]

You ignore the 1-2 ship fleets and smash their provinces.

[kronpas]

... Or you ignore provinces you cant defend.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

You ignore the 1-2 ship fleets and smash their provinces.

With what armies after those fleets reek havoc on your infrastructure, since things apparently go useless if even a slight bit of damage befalls them?

I've experienced fleets somehow ignoring intercept zones from time to time and it's bloody annoying.

[daniu]

The AI just passed within hair's breadth of my ships on the campaign map and blockaded the port. How can that happen? I know I can't move past enemy fleets, have to move beyond that red circle. I don't see a circle around my ships, but surely they have one?

The zone of control is disabled for armies/navies if they are on an attack order. This resolves other problems that can arise (and which do in certain mods changing that behavior).

Any tips on how I can prevent the bazillion 1 or 2 ship fleets from laying waste to my ports all the time? Chasing them down isn't very effective since there are several new ones coming almost every turn. It's past RD on Legendary.

Upgrade your ports to have coastal defenses and keep a few larger fleets in range of your ports and use them to drive away the single ship fleets. You won't lose a single ship doing this (quite the opposite, usually you capture some along the way). Autoresolve to lose less time.
After the first somewhat tougher time, the fleets become less and less of a problem.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

With what armies after those fleets reek havoc on your infrastructure, since things apparently go useless if even a slight bit of damage befalls them?

I've experienced fleets somehow ignoring intercept zones from time to time and it's bloody annoying.

Build up your real infrastructure... Farms, markets/financial districts, factories, etc. Do not rely on trade, if you want to become the most powerful entity in all of Japan. That is what I did, when I took everything North of Fukushima as the Aizu before I went on a Republican rampage against the Imperials and Shogunates. I barely noticed my ports being bombarded or blocked, as the majority of my income was generated by taxation, even though my taxes were on the lowest setting (take that, lefties!).

The numbers below are from after I took central Japan, but they still show my point quite clearly.

Tax income: 43943
Trade income: 13093
Other: 1200
Total: 58236 (expenses: 37008, income: 21228 - Prior to taking central Japan this number was between 10.000 and 13.000).

[Sir Winston Churchill]

The zone of control is disabled for armies/navies if they are on an attack order. This resolves other problems that can arise (and which do in certain mods changing that behavior).

Kind of makes the point of intercepting moot, doesn't it?

Build up your real infrastructure... Farms, markets/financial districts, factories, etc. Do not rely on trade, if you want to become the most powerful entity in all of Japan. That is what I did, when I took everything North of Fukushima as the Aizu before I went on a Republican rampage against the Imperials and Shogunates. I barely noticed my ports being bombarded or blocked, as the majority of my income was generated by trade, even though my taxes were on the slowest setting (take that, lefties!).

The numbers below are from after I took central Japan, but they still show my point quite clearly.

Tax income: 43943
Trade income: 13093
Other: 1200
Total: 58236 (expenses: 37008, income: 21228 - Prior to taking central Japan this number was between 10.000 and 13.000).

Except that isn't so easy playing factions like Tosa or Satsuma where a good majority of your stuff can be bombarded.

[jonny duck]

Except that isn't so easy playing factions like Tosa or Satsuma where a good majority of your stuff can be bombarded.

Which is why in FOTS your economy should be based around taxation rather than trade.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Which is why in FOTS your economy should be based around taxation rather than trade.

Except that's hard to do because you already piss your people off with modernization and it costs money to get happiness buildings but by then you've either been invaded or bombarded and where does the money come from?

if there's one thing I noticed about FotS, is that it doesn't make it easy on you economically speaking.

[jonny duck]

Except that's hard to do because you already piss your people off with modernization and it costs money to get happiness buildings but by then you've either been invaded or bombarded and where does the money come from?

if there's one thing I noticed about FotS, is that it doesn't make it easy on you economically speaking.

I agree, the hardest part about FOTS is the economy. Winning battles is easy, having enough money to field armies to win battles is the hardest part.

My main advice is to not rush buildings, and at the very least be able to break even on taxation, so that if (tbh, when) you lose all your trade, you don't go bust.

That or flick two fingers up to the people and crush all the rebellions.

[aeoleron9]

I also use ZoC to block off with AI navy spam, and they've never gotten past. Maybe cause my fleets are set up far away from my regions so the AI can't abuse the attack function to bypass me.

AI armies also sometimes ignore my fleets that were guarding a landbridge. I think it might be a different problem tho, namely the army was standing within the fleet ZoC which allows them to ignore it.

[Mugen]

Be a real man, and play Darthmod.

The naval zone of control is about 3 times larger than vanilla, allowing you to sometimes ''shield'' 2-3 ports with one fleet.

Sometimes i forget that people play vanilla....why would you, when you could have your game enhanced in most every way, for free?

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Be a real man, and play Darthmod.

The naval zone of control is about 3 times larger than vanilla, allowing you to sometimes ''shield'' 2-3 ports with one fleet.

Sometimes i forget that people play vanilla....why would you, when you could have your game enhanced in most every way, for free?

Because of the possible bugs, glitches, or other corruptions induced on the original game? Features you really don't want, such as inflated unit sizes? Or maybe you just like the simplicity of vanilla, some people don't always want to play mods.

[daniu]

Kind of makes the point of intercepting moot, doesn't it?

No, you can still intercept perfectly well, just attck them.
Like I said, this is a "lesser evil" mechanic.

Be a real man, and play Darthmod.

Which incidentally does show the problem I described.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

Be a real man, and play Darthmod.

The naval zone of control is about 3 times larger than vanilla, allowing you to sometimes ''shield'' 2-3 ports with one fleet.

Sometimes i forget that people play vanilla....why would you, when you could have your game enhanced in most every way, for free?

In every large mod there is always some changes that I don't want, so I rather stick to the minor ones that alter one or two things in the vanilla game (RD mod for S2, clans' colour, more units, etc.). Another thing is that while vanilla might not be completely bugfree, a mod usually make the game even more buggy and unstable.

[Mugen]

well, to each their own. i personally found vanilla unplayable, due to its numerous game/immersion breaking bugs (ai siege reinforcements sitting on the corner of the map, allies declaring war when relationship is 200+, hill camping BAI, no use whatsoever of tactics or formation in battle by the ai, CAI spamming multiple stacks of bow ashigaru late game, etc) and Darthmod changed all that, and more.

plus, i have a lot more faith in someone who regularly updates, maintains and takes pride in his work....and actually seems to play the game.
CA patches are few and far between, and inevitably break more than they fix.

[IGdood]

With what armies after those fleets reek havoc on your infrastructure, since things apparently go useless if even a slight bit of damage befalls them?

I've experienced fleets somehow ignoring intercept zones from time to time and it's bloody annoying.

Single ships usually miss a lot when they try to bombard me.

Then again, I play Saga , so I have a ton of cash.

[AgentGB]

I would suggest, if not land locked

1. Always play out naval battles, for some reason you always fair worst if you don't, even if you outnumber or outgun them, taking losses that you probably shouldn't.

2. If playing nations like Satsuma, you can really only afford to have two trade ports or so, which will always require a decent size fleet guarding them, since trade is your source of income as this faction

3. Anywhere else, or province you take over, especially in areas that ports will provide a sealane chokepoint, build military ports to the highest, and keep half sized fleets there in port ready to fend of bigger fleets, should be quite winnable, and helps to stay a head in the techs for this also, such as better ammo, and armour for ships. If you can hold your ports, you don't have to worry about invasion forces so much, and keep a smaller garrison in settlements.

4. Your navy should be almost equal to size in actual fielded forces, since navy seems to play a very important role in FOTS, and without it, your be torn apart and at the ai mercy. Your slowly have to keep growing your navy, but the more ports you can defend, the more money you should get, but also make its vital that you defend them in the first place.

It took me 2/3rds of my Satsuma campaign to get control of the surrounding seas after taking over my island, only guarding important ports, and slowly increasing navy size before sending a half stack to defend another port, trade ports you need to defend at sea, since a single turn blockade can crash your income down. You should build trade ports were natural defence of the land provide one way in and one way out sorta thing. In the end, i have 3 huge stacks of shipping, 2 guarding my capitals trading port, so if one takes a battering, it can be repaired while the other takes it place, then 1 fleet with my prized european battleship that goes out campaigning with my frontline armies, while have 4- 5 half sized stacks of fleets docked in military ports ready to defend along with the shore battieres provided by the military ports, which can usually beat the biggest stacks if you play the battle and not autoresolve, and scare of any smaller fleets trying to raid or offshore bombard farms etc.

Navy is very important in FOTS, the ai will continuously try to hurt your income, and land forces for rear attacks if you don't have an adequate sized navy, and even when you do, the ai will continue to try, and sit outside you dock waiting to form into a armada, which is why its important every turn to chase away any surrounding shipping at your dock then return to harbour all within a turn, ready for the same thing next turn.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

No, you can still intercept perfectly well, just attck them.
Like I said, this is a "lesser evil" mechanic.

Yes, attack them after they've blown past your intercept range like it didn't exist and after they've caused expensive damage to something.

[vallu751]

Thanks to everyone for the tips, especially Daniu. So the AI can bypass my ships because they are moving to block the port?

In that case, I'll see what happens when I place one ship in the port and the blocking fleet within reinforce distance. That should force the enemy into combat if they want to block or bombard.

It's not the trade income I'm most worried about, taxes and looting provide my cash. But the bombarding of my improvements and cities is getting annoying. I feel that some naval presence is required even though the navy costs more in upkeep than I can ever make in sea trade.