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Thread: Getting rid of VAT

  1. #21
    ivan_the_terrible's Avatar Auxiliarius
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    VAT and its equivalents in other countries is in my opinion the most shameful tax; in an ideal world it would just be scrapped.

    However as you say the money needs to come from somewhere. Personally I think a good compromise would be to begin by reforming it: it should be removed from some things entirely, like staple foods, fuel, and other things a poor family would spend the vast majority of their income on (that doesn't go towards accommodation). It should be lowered to below 10% for non-luxury non-essentials, like most clothing (I'd even put cheap clothing in the 'no VAT bracket'), many of the beneficial but non-staple foods, etc. Expensive luxury goods and services should still be taxed at 20%; maybe even raise it to 25% to help make up the difference.

    The rest of the shortfall ought to be made up through corporate tax.

    That's my suggestion, for what it's worth.

  2. #22
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus Laticlavius
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    As I recall, Income Tax, and I suppose VAT, stem from the fact that countries can't impose Customs and Duties on imports as they please.
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  3. #23
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Quote Originally Posted by ivan_the_terrible View Post
    VAT and its equivalents in other countries is in my opinion the most shameful tax;
    Inheritance tax.
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  4. #24
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Sagittarius
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Quote Originally Posted by That Dutch guy View Post
    Inheritance tax.
    Inheritance tax does appear to be a rather horrendous tax from an ethical stance. But at the same time, an open and complete inheritance would perpetuate class stasis, which isn't healthy for society. After all, inheritance weakens the will to work in people. That can't be good for an economy now can it? Practically speaking, it isn't such a bad thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by ivan_the_terrible View Post
    VAT and its equivalents in other countries is in my opinion the most shameful tax; in an ideal world it would just be scrapped.

    However as you say the money needs to come from somewhere. Personally I think a good compromise would be to begin by reforming it: it should be removed from some things entirely, like staple foods, fuel, and other things a poor family would spend the vast majority of their income on (that doesn't go towards accommodation). It should be lowered to below 10% for non-luxury non-essentials, like most clothing (I'd even put cheap clothing in the 'no VAT bracket'), many of the beneficial but non-staple foods, etc. Expensive luxury goods and services should still be taxed at 20%; maybe even raise it to 25% to help make up the difference.

    The rest of the shortfall ought to be made up through corporate tax.

    That's my suggestion, for what it's worth.
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  5. #25
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus Laticlavius
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Unless you impose foreign exchange controls, assets can be transferred to off-shore holding companies run by your progeny, so there's a limit to how high you want to impose inheritance tax.

    A reasonable amount of taxation collected in an efficient manner would be the best compromise.

    A cashless economy would be the most efficient to tax.
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  6. #26
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Unless you impose foreign exchange controls
    Tobin Tax. Two flies in one strike.

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
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  7. #27
    Koelkastmagneet's Avatar Baitai kihei
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    I'd argue that VAT isn't really regressive when two or more separate levels are kept. As long as luxury goods have a higher level of VAT the higher incomes are going to be (both in relative and absolute terms) bearing more of the burden. Lower incomes generally spend more towards providing basic needs for themselves and their family, goods like these are usually sold at a lower VAT percentage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Tobin Tax. Two flies in one strike.
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  8. #28
    Rolling Thunder's Avatar Jukutatsu shita
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Quote Originally Posted by That Dutch guy View Post
    I'd argue that VAT isn't really regressive when two or more separate levels are kept. As long as luxury goods have a higher level of VAT the higher incomes are going to be (both in relative and absolute terms) bearing more of the burden. Lower incomes generally spend more towards providing basic needs for themselves and their family, goods like these are usually sold at a lower VAT percentage.

    Literal translation of a saying
    Actually, proportionately lower income families will spend more of their money on what luxuries they do consume. The fact of the matter is that "luxuries" consist of everything beyond spending 5 a week on vegetables, utilities and clothing. The reason it is unfair is not because it penalizes the consumption of neccesities but because it penalizes consumption, and the less someone earns, the more (as a proportion of their income) they spend on consumption. I.e. The tax is directly regressive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    How about we define the rights that allow a government to say that isn't within my freedom.

  9. #29
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus Laticlavius
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    The thing about taxation is, that wherever you decide to attach it, at the border, in the store/transaction, or from the paycheck, the consumer is going to end up coughing it up.
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  10. #30
    Thorn777's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    The thing about taxation is, that wherever you decide to attach it, at the border, in the store/transaction, or from the paycheck, the consumer is going to end up coughing it up.
    So let it be the consumers of wallstreet.

    "There is no such thing as an independent press. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
    John Swinton, Chief of Staff, NY Times.

  11. #31
    Rolling Thunder's Avatar Jukutatsu shita
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    Default Re: Getting rid of VAT

    Quote Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K View Post
    The thing about taxation is, that wherever you decide to attach it, at the border, in the store/transaction, or from the paycheck, the consumer is going to end up coughing it up.
    Incorrect. The consumer always ends up coughing up when it comes to taxes on goods/services (whether that be import duty, VAT or NI contributions). When it comes to income tax - and corporation tax - then the business (and individual) pay the majority of the burden, simply because those taxes do not distort the profit-maximizing price point of said company. The company cannot raise prices beyond that without losing more profit in sales than it gains from said price rise, likewise, it cannot do so by lowering it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    How about we define the rights that allow a government to say that isn't within my freedom.

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