New patch broke Shogun 2's Kisho Ninja.

[IGdood]

Hello,

Seems like 1 guy in the Gameplay and Strategy forum and myself have been experiencing a weird bug with the new patch.

Shogun 2's campaign kisho ninja's stats are messed up.

15 attack
22 charge
50 range
26 accuracy (nerfed?)
25 reload skill (nerfed?)
11 ammo (increased)
10 melee defense
3 armor
3 morale (What? WTF?)

[The-Monetary]

Thats weird, But still kisho ninjas were broke all along they should be in a 200 group instead of 60 i mean what am i paying 320 upkeep for ? 60 good swordsmen without armour.

[Larkin]

60 good swordsmen without armour that can destroy an entire unit with a single round of grenades...

[CptAustus]

Thats just an error. In MP they still have their old stats. CA must've messed them up like they did with Monks when they got their old stats.

[Humble Warrior]

Thats weird, But still kisho ninjas were broke all along they should be in a 200 group instead of 60 i mean what am i paying 320 upkeep for ? 60 good swordsmen without armour.

The kisho ninjas are a small specialised group with specialised skills. Smaller is less noticeable. No armour makes no noise. It makes a LOT of sense. You pay for that skill, not the number like with standard infantry.

However, the skills, as IGdood mentioned, like 3 morale make no sense.

[Lazarus]

I wouldn't pay anyone with 3 morale more than 5 Koku per man. A shame that this had to happen to Ninja. Guess now is a perfectly good time for me to test out Rome

[Humble Warrior]

Funny (well not really). My game stopped working with its Saves a week ago and I haven`t played since and now, some aborted Patch we can`t control has screwed the stats of the game.

CA seems to have made some kind of huge, huge error.

[daniu]

Not exactly new...
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...le-multiplayer

[The-Monetary]

Kisho ninjas are garbage if your not using them for the grenades that is.

[CptAustus]

No, they are garbage if they they get into melee and stealth is of.

[IGdood]

Thats just an error. In MP they still have their old stats. CA must've messed them up like they did with Monks when they got their old stats.

MP versions are separate from campaign versions.

[fkizz]

The kisho ninjas are a small specialised group with specialised skills. Smaller is less noticeable. No armour makes no noise. It makes a LOT of sense. You pay for that skill, not the number like with standard infantry.

However, the skills, as IGdood mentioned, like 3 morale make no sense.

In cost effectiveness, the money of that recruitment and upkeep can be more benefic spending on some other more numerous unit (s).

They have a specialised skill but required too much micro management, and you have a battle to pay atention to. Also instead of that you could be getting an extra boost to your army power for same upkeep.

Still gotta love them for "air of fresh breeze" effect, variety, etc, but in strategy map not the most cost-effective thing around, unless you happen to be really good with kisho ninja.

[DukeofBrunswick]

CA broke something in a patch?

Whats new.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

In cost effectiveness, the money of that recruitment and upkeep can be more benefic spending on some other more numerous unit (s).

They have a specialised skill but required too much micro management, and you have a battle to pay atention to. Also instead of that you could be getting an extra boost to your army power for same upkeep.

Still gotta love them for "air of fresh breeze" effect, variety, etc, but in strategy map not the most cost-effective thing around, unless you happen to be really good with kisho ninja.

Then they are deadly.

[Lazarus]

I didn't become a Hattori Fan Boy over night for no reason

[CptAustus]

In cost effectiveness, the money of that recruitment and upkeep can be more benefic spending on some other more numerous unit (s).

They have a specialised skill but required too much micro management, and you have a battle to pay atention to. Also instead of that you could be getting an extra boost to your army power for same upkeep.

Still gotta love them for "air of fresh breeze" effect, variety, etc, but in strategy map not the most cost-effective thing around, unless you happen to be really good with kisho ninja.

In MP, in certain maps, most people will rush somewhere/up hill. If you have a couple of ninjas waiting, they'll slow down the entire army and get a pretty good amount of kills. I imagine in SP they can attack the enemy in a bridge battle fron their side of the battle, kill all the bow units, maybe the gen unit, and bomb the melee units in the bridge.

[IGdood]

I remember assaulting a castle in MP, and this guy had stealthed kisho on the walls. Nailed my general with grenades and sealed my defeat.

[The-Monetary]

bombthrowers are better for grenades with higher amount lower upkeep and everything. A kisho ninja is a jack of all trades but nothing but a cute unit.

They should have the same size as a katana samurai and adapted upkeep aswel. Its funny because every unit that have a "limit" because their supposed to be this imba unit is small retarded useless and extravagently high on upkeep whoever decided to make the Hero unit 30 strong is confused about how total war works.

[Lazarus]

bombthrowers are better for grenades with higher amount lower upkeep and everything. A kisho ninja is a jack of all trades but nothing but a cute unit.

They should have the same size as a katana samurai and adapted upkeep aswel. Its funny because every unit that have a "limit" because their supposed to be this imba unit is small retarded useless and extravagently high on upkeep whoever decided to make the Hero unit 30 strong is confused about how total war works.

Heroes work just fine with the duel system. They aren't meant to cut down entire armies on their own though. They're made to hold entire armies in place while people maneuver to support them.

As for bomb throwers, last time I played MP they cost the same as Ninja, so at least in that respect you're better off bringing Ninja - someone who is able to join the melee later and be effective.

[Humble Warrior]

unless you happen to be really good with kisho ninja.

Well, unlike some others, I use them in the spirit they were meant for. I use them properly for ambushes. I position them carefully and use their strengths. I never use them as fighting infantry unless desperate, but they`re not meant to be fighting infantry anyway, as they die easy. I even use them to sneakily climb the walls while defenders are busy and surprise attack. Now I`ll admit this is for SP Campaign play.

This is how you` re supposed to use them, as a specialist unit.

But MP tends to screw with this kind of thing since some people just want them to be tanks bumrushing, which they are not. Use them to their strengths. If a situation arises where you can`t use their strengths then simply don`t employ them.