Catholic Education Service to be investigated by Government

[removeduser_487563287433]

Schools and teachers are forbidden under UK law to promote one-sided political arguments. It is alleged that the Catholic Education Service (CES) has broken this law when it emerged last week that they wrote to 400 hundred Catholic schools asking them to back a petition against gay marriage. Students were "encouraged" to sign. Students rose the alarm, reporting the matter to gay organisation Stonewall, after they felt uncomfortable following an assembly where the Headmistress claimed that homosexuality was "unnatural".

These schools are funded by the state.

The CES claims that they have not broken the law as gay marriage is a religious, not a political issue.

Matters of homosexuality, gay marriage and the Catholic Church have been in the public eye in the UK for the past few months, mostly thanks to the comments of the head of the Church in Scotland, Cardinal O'Brian, who in the space of a couple of months has compared homosexuality to the slave trade and claimed that gay marriage is "grotesque" and "would shame the United Kingdom".

Personally, I'm not surprised, but it is still shocking how out of touch the Catholic Church in the UK. Given the widespread public disquiet following the abuse scandal, it seems bizarre that they keep volunteering for this sort of knock down by methods as unsubtle as breaking the law and trying to press children into voting their political petitions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17883093

[Bolkonsky]

Wait, you guys don't have freedom of speech? Then what's the point of a Catholic School in the first place? :/

[removeduser_487563287433]

If you're suggesting that stopping the CES from getting it's students to sign their petition is a violation of freedom of speech then I can't agree. Students can sign it. But state funded schools cannot push political agendas.

[Bolkonsky]

Catholic schools are state funded? That's messed up.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Faith schools are state funded. You could have completely private institutions, but even then you couldn't go around pushing this sort of agenda.

[Menelik_I]

These schools are funded by the state.

That is seriously a problem.

The CES claims that they have not broken the law as gay marriage is a religious, not a political issue.

They have a point, as long as they fear to be forced to do services against their religious beliefs.

Personally, I'm not surprised, but it is still shocking how out of touch the Catholic Church in the UK.

You are shocked that the Catholic Church is in touch with its doctrine and internal policies ?

Given the widespread public disquiet following the abuse scandal, it seems bizarre that they keep volunteering for this sort of knock down by methods as unsubtle as breaking the law and trying to press children into voting their political petitions.

How old are the students , and how hard were they actually pressed ?

Simply telling students that there is a petition for X is not to press them to anything, unless you threaten them with penalties or pressure them into signing anything. But then the state pay for the school and so it is kind of a weird situation all around.

[Machiavelli25]

Faith schools are state funded. You could have completely private institutions, but even then you couldn't go around pushing this sort of agenda.

What do you mean by 'pushing'? Asking someone to sign a petition doesn't equal pushing something. Its a matter of choice for the individual.

In my experience its the opposite, Catholic and other faith schools in the UK are forced to subscribe to political/moral beliefs the government approves of.

They aren't even allowed to select based on faith anymore, which defeats the point of a faith school.

[removeduser_487563287433]

That is seriously a problem.

I don't really see the sense in it myself.

They have a point, as long as they fear to be forced to do services against their religious beliefs.

You think a petition they intend to deliver to the Government is somehow apolitical?

How old are the students , and how hard were they actually pressed ?

Since this was sent to 400 schools, likely a variety of ages and a variety of severity.

Simply telling students that there is a petition for X is .

Not telling them it existed. Telling them to sign it.

What do you mean by 'pushing'? Asking someone to sign a petition doesn't equal pushing something.

Even considering these are authority figures vs. children?

[Bolkonsky]

Yeah, waste of state funds having 400 Catholic schools that aren't allowed to be Catholic. Might as well just shut them down since they're entirely redundant.

Telling to, or asking to? The article says:

It emerged this week that the CES wrote to nearly 400 state-funded Roman Catholic schools inviting them to back a petition against gay civil marriage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17883093

EDIT: Though from the sounds of it, that changes nothing.

[Machiavelli25]

Yeah, waste of state funds having 400 Catholic schools that aren't allowed to be Catholic. Might as well just shut them down since they're entirely redundant.

Telling to, or asking to? The article says:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17883093

The reason faith schools in the UK are state supported (particularly in relation to Catholic ones) is part of the old labour initiatives to help the working class Irish immigrant populations, who wouldn't have been able to afford private schooling (or the ability to set up private schooling). While this doesn't really hold true for the Catholics anymore it does in the Islamic community with many members often being recent immigrants with working class backgrounds.

I don't really agree with state sponsored faith schools but in the UK there is a reason why they exist, I can see the other argument. Scaremongering about kids being brainwashed is fairly dumb, even religious studies lessons have to be looked over by the governments education wing, many of these 'faith' schools are that in name only these days.

[Bolkonsky]

If they can't teach their own faith, then why not just have public schools?

[Menelik_I]

You think a petition they intend to deliver to the Government is somehow apolitical?

You can thank the Gays for making the subject of Catholic moral doctrine political.

Since this was sent to 400 schools, likely a variety of ages and a variety of severity.

This is too broad and vague, could provide precise what kind of schools this petition was sent to and to which classes was it pitched to. These children could be anything from toddlers to 20 years old ?

Not telling them it existed. Telling them to sign it.

Even considering these are authority figures vs. children?

You said ''encouraged'' which not pushing anything on the kids. How can you make a judgement that the kids were intimidated by ''authority figures'' if you are not even sure of which school this was sent to ?

Knowing the UK, any kid over 16 is not going to be intimidated by anyone but a riot police officer.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yeah, waste of state funds having 400 Catholic schools that aren't allowed to be Catholic.

I'm... sorry... what part of being a Catholic involves making children sign political petitions?

You said ''encouraged'' which not pushing anything on the kids.

Semantics.

[Machiavelli25]

If they can't teach their own faith, then why not just have public schools?

Well its complicated, some of these faith schools basically are just public schools with the 'faith' tagline just pasted over. Other ones still are legitimate faith schools and are steeped in history/local support. Britain has a growing Catholic and Islamic population due to immigration from Eastern Europe and the subcontinent, so demand for actual faith schools from these communities is still quite strong. And often these communities can't afford private education, so public (I mean state, I know in the UK public schools are private) schools are the only option.

[Menelik_I]

Semantics.

The whole ''scandal'' depends on determining to whether the students were forced to sign the petition or not, there is no semantics in that.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The whole ''scandal'' depends on determining to whether the students were forced to sign the petition or not, there is no semantics in that.

No, there's a Government investigation in that.

[fkizz]

Well some Catholic Priests are notorious for their pressure on little boys to do illegal things.

[Machiavelli25]

No, there's a Government investigation in that.

Ok, well until the investigation has happened I don't see the point in this thread.

[Menelik_I]

No, there's a Government investigation in that.

Yet it doesn't prevent you from making conclusions in your OP that :

it seems bizarre that they keep volunteering for this sort of knock down by methods as unsubtle as breaking the law and trying to press children into voting their political petitions.

Speculation is only allowed if with the assumption that the Catholic Church is guilty ?

Ok, well until the investigation has happened I don't see the point in this thread.

Same here, maybe this thread ought to be closed, because until the inquiry is finished this is nothing more than a Catholic bashing fest.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Ok, well until the investigation has happened I don't see the point in this thread.

So... you feel like there's no point in the Breivik thread until he is convicted? Perhaps no point in discussing the Presidential election until somebody has won?