M2TW AI for this mod is broken

[Spits32]

Let me first start off by saying that I think KK et al. did the best they could with the 6 year old game they had to work with. A lot of hard work went into this mod to give players an immersive experience. Unfortunately, Creative Assembly has better things to do than apply updates to a game when they are busy moving on to the next new thing. You can't really blame them, they are a business after all.

So getting to my main point, my single biggest complaint why this mod is broken is that the AI simply cannot play by the rules within the confines of the user controlled universe. I have heard the argument that if it were "vanilla AI" we would all steamroll, etc. But let's face it we are all just too good at this game. M2TW was made for a general RTS audience. TATW was obviously designed for the M2TW Fanatic. Why else would the recommended difficulty be VH/VH. Because we have all already figured out every nook and cranny to give ourselves the edge over the vanilla AI. Examples include creating super governors w/ no neg traits, easily being able to wage battle after battle after battle of epic, heroic victories. The list goes on. This in turn forces the modders to give the AI more buffs to deal with everyone's incessant manipulation of gameplay. So then the next necessary step is to turn up the morale for the enemy, give them free money, give them 10 star generals, give them free units. I understand other modders have been trying to address these issues via RC and enhanced C-AI, but they simply do not get at the root of the problem. That the AI cannot manage it's money or units. They are utterly broken.

I want to close by saying that I really did enjoy playing this mod. I think it does a really good job of immersing you into the JRRT world, which is really all anyone can ask for. I just think that after several, hard fought, grueling ashes in your mouth wins on VH/VH, only by having to tweak submods to your every whim just to have a playable experience, you can start to see the game for what it is.

[Charger Bolt]

I many not agree with you, your entitled to your opinion but to just say its a broken game is a not a fact it's an opionion. These guys made this mod for free at The expense of Thier personal time and using Thier own resources, if one does not like it fine but don't bash it and tell the world it's broken

[Garriath]

So are you actually saying that the mod itself is broken, or is the game itself?

Bear in mind, you're entirely free to set the difficulty settings lower than VH/VH. The reduced enemy morale on easier difficulties really lightens things up.

I don't agree, however, that this mod's designed for a M2TW fanatic. It's challenging, absolutely. However, you really just need to scale back your expectations. Dominating Middle-Earth is an incredibly challenging goal. However, eliminating Rhun as Dale, or Mordor as Rohan, or the goblins as Eriador, can be a challenging, yet ultimately very rewarding game as well.

What I can say is, I'm no fanatic, and I've had a hell of a time playing TATW. I've tried a few mods, and honestly, I prefer the vanilla. So I'll disagree with your last point as well; you don't need to tweak submods to get a "playable" experience. As far as I'm concerned, far from it.

[Spits32]

Thank you for your opinion of my opinion. What specifically don't you agree with?

So are you actually saying that the mod itself is broken, or is the game itself?

The game is broken, which in turn makes the mod broken. Regarding difficulty sliders. I actually played most of my games on H/H. If you play on M/M, the AI does not get any population buffs, which in turn does not allow them to upgrade any of their cities, because they can't figure out how to manage taxes or population growth. How is that not broken? Like I said, I think KK did the best he could. I'm sorry if this offends anyone. But that's what I think.

[RomanGuy]

Saying that this mod is "utterly broken" is just wrong. This mod has been better developed and has better gameplay than the actual game that CA made. It is that game, Medieval II: Total War, that is utterly broken. Dont' come here to this forum to complain about that and put any blame on the modders for not fixing it.

If that's not what you are saying, change the title of the thread and post in the Medieval II General Forum about how broken the game is.

[Spits32]

I would be happy to revise the title to be more clear, but I'm not sure how.

[Bregil]

I would be happy to revise the title to be more clear, but I'm not sure how.

You need to edit your first post and then click on the "Go Advanced" button. You should be able to change the thread title then.

[Wizad]

I think this mod gave me one of the most fun game experiences I have ever had.

[Spits32]

I think this mod gave me one of the most fun game experiences I have ever had.

I had a lot of fun playing this mod too. But let me make an analogy. Let's say you are playing computer chess on your laptop. You move your pawn 1 place forward. The AI then starts moving its pawns in any direction it pleases. The rules don't seem to apply to them. You are still able to beat the AI, because it is not competent enough to utilize its mighty pawns effectively. So you keep playing because you are able to beat the computer 9 times out of 10, and generally enjoy the experience. Does that not make the program broken because you had fun? I do not believe they are mutually exclusive.

[Macilrille]

I think you should be glad the AI is an idiot instead of an intelligence. Cause even though it would be nice to have a somewhat more competent opponent, an AI that is as challenging as a Human opponent would be is... scary...

[Trailhog250]

The AI gives me enough challenge that I don't feel like a mindless idiot playing the game. And more often then not, my generals end up as bums when I neglect them lol (always the iconic ones too )


My first recommendation to you is to grab the latest Germanicu BAI. (a slightly outdated version is present in vanilla actually)

People complain constantly about the AI not being able to manage troops on the Campaign and Battle map.. But I fail to see this. They're intelligent enough that if I don't pay attention they'll start gaining ground very fast. I've been enjoying this mod since 1.4, had lots of fun on easy, very hard, with and without submods, with and without AI cheats removed.
This is imo, the best complete overhaul mod available for any game.

[Macilrille]

Just you wait til EB2 is out Trailhog, just you wait...

But I agree with your assesment of the AI, especially in MOS.

[Dutch-Balrog]

What is EB2?

[Wizad]

Europa Barbarium or something like that.

[Macilrille]

This thread is about the AI for TATW, I posted a link on DB's wall in reply. But in order to avoid derailing further, "yes it is Europa Barbarorum 2".

Now, sorry for the derail, back on topic. I believe the AI in TATW + MOS is the best so far for MTW2

[major]

What is EB2?

Europa Barbarorum 2 (work in progress) mod for Medieval II TotalWar.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=454

[Spits32]

I might have to give EB2 it a try to compare. Is it possible to gank the AI for TATW?

[Macilrille]

You will have to wait for at least a year before it comes out, we are not so fast- or rather, we want to get any little detail in.

There is a mod for the MTW2 AI, I forgot its name, as I understand it a weaker version is included in Vanilla and a stronger (later) one is part of MOS.

[sventoby]

One thing I wouldn't mind would be a tweaking of the trait system if possible. If everyone is going to micromanage generals in order to maximize their traits can't the system just be changed to make it less reliant on doing unrealistic things like setting the taxes low for a turn or taking him out of the city when a certain building is built? It would just make the game easier to play without sacrificing anything substantial from the game.

[Macilrille]

*points to the "Suggestions" Thread.

Edit, I think it is hardcoded though.