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Thread: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP] (Parthia, Bactria, & Epirus Complete! Plus Campaign map screens!)

  1. #41
    Spike's Avatar Cute Lil' Dragon
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Quote Originally Posted by Punic Hoplite View Post
    And as a side note, please dear Baal make all phalanx-capable units of Carthage simply spearmen, or close order infantry. There is no indication that I have found that Carthaginian soldiers fought in a phalanx during the First Punic War or against Pyrrhus. It will open up Carthaginian flexibility on the battlefield, and probably be more historically accurate

    And as for the actual troops, make any Carthaginian (people with Carthaginian citizenship) units have stats similar to a warband, with slightly higher defense values (because they could afford to buy good equipment). But for their normal army, it should be quite diverse, though what you could do is have specific areas that would be extremely plentiful with local mercenaries. Say the area of Carthage is one such zone. It would be filled with mercenaries of good quality, with said mercenaries replenishing themselves rapidly compared to other areas. I could help make these regions if you want
    Quite wrong I affraid, the Phoenicians are quite hellenized, while most of their armies are libians and iberians who didn't fought in phalanxes, their Liby-Phoenicians and Phoenician troops did fought in Phalanxes and Thorakitai, just like the Hellenes do. I suggest you to play EB and read their descriptions of Punic troops there.

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  2. #42
    ahowl11's Avatar RTR Project
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Only two units will fight in the phalanx formation. I have not decided on whether to add Signifier One's animation pack in the first release or to just wait. You are right about the stats, as of now the strongest infantry unit is Poeni Infantry. Consider them to be an elite core of nobles, who are called on to defend Carthage only.

    As far as the recruitment is concerned, I need someone who is experienced with AOR systems to help me out once I release the first version of this mod

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  3. #43
    Punic Hoplite's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Quite wrong I affraid, the Phoenicians are quite hellenized, while most of their armies are libians and iberians who didn't fought in phalanxes, their Liby-Phoenicians and Phoenician troops did fought in Phalanxes and Thorakitai, just like the Hellenes do. I suggest you to play EB and read their descriptions of Punic troops there.
    But the Phoenicians weren't soldiers. They may have fought when needed to defend their city (Tyre) but otherwise the only fighting they did was in the market place or in their navy. And in my book of Polybius, on the Battle of Bagrades, Polybius talks of how the encircled Romans were "faced by the Carthaginian phalanx of heavy infantry", which going by that translation (yes, it is open for interpretation on the translator I know) would mean it was a dense formation of heavy infantry, rather than a Macedonian phalanx which RTW tries to depict. He later goes on to describe how the Romans were 'cut down' by the Carthaginian heavy infantry. Though again, that is open to interpretation by the translator.

    But to address the phalanx issue, when I talk of Phalanx in RTW, I mean the Macedonian phalanx. The short_pike used by the game for hoplites gives an unfair advantage to hoplites vs pikemen on the battle map, as they can somehow get their 6-10 foot spear into the formation of a unit with 21 foot spears. It is also important to note that Carthage didn't force hired soldiers to fight a certain way, but for them to fight the way they had always fought. Celts and other barbarians as close order infantry, Numidians as horsemen and so on. The Libyans weren't exposed to the Greeks really except for Agathocles's invasion of Africa, and through the Carthaginians themselves in Sicily and Carthage where the Carthaginians regularly traded with the Greeks.

    So for a slimmed down version of all this:
    Phalanx in RTW should mean Macedonian phalanx, all other short_pike units should be close order spearmen, without the phalanx ability. Carthaginians/Libyans didn't use the phalanx like Macedon by the First Punic War, though the evidence for this is up in the air depending on whom translated it.

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  4. #44
    debux's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Quote Originally Posted by Punic Hoplite View Post
    But the Phoenicians weren't soldiers. They may have fought when needed to defend their city (Tyre) but otherwise the only fighting they did was in the market place or in their navy. And in my book of Polybius, on the Battle of Bagrades, Polybius talks of how the encircled Romans were "faced by the Carthaginian phalanx of heavy infantry", which going by that translation (yes, it is open for interpretation on the translator I know) would mean it was a dense formation of heavy infantry, rather than a Macedonian phalanx which RTW tries to depict. He later goes on to describe how the Romans were 'cut down' by the Carthaginian heavy infantry. Though again, that is open to interpretation by the translator.

    But to address the phalanx issue, when I talk of Phalanx in RTW, I mean the Macedonian phalanx. The short_pike used by the game for hoplites gives an unfair advantage to hoplites vs pikemen on the battle map, as they can somehow get their 6-10 foot spear into the formation of a unit with 21 foot spears. It is also important to note that Carthage didn't force hired soldiers to fight a certain way, but for them to fight the way they had always fought. Celts and other barbarians as close order infantry, Numidians as horsemen and so on. The Libyans weren't exposed to the Greeks really except for Agathocles's invasion of Africa, and through the Carthaginians themselves in Sicily and Carthage where the Carthaginians regularly traded with the Greeks.

    So for a slimmed down version of all this:
    Phalanx in RTW should mean Macedonian phalanx, all other short_pike units should be close order spearmen, without the phalanx ability. Carthaginians/Libyans didn't use the phalanx like Macedon by the First Punic War, though the evidence for this is up in the air depending on whom translated it.
    This. Most greek influences changed the carthaginian culture, in a very small extent (like adopting similar gods, amongst other non-military changes)... IIRC, the only major changes that any greek made on the carthaginian military was the adoption of close order spearmen (fighting the Sicilian greeks) and Xanthippus' (?) reforms (although it's debatable if his reform was more than just in the administrative and organizational part of the army)... I believe EB included those pikemen as an different interpretation of the available scriptures, and also it's not completely certain that they had those pikemen... EB is not a history book (although better than most, but one should always have a critical posture to everything)
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  5. #45
    ahowl11's Avatar RTR Project
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    I will make a slight change in making the Poeni Infantry close order spearmen.

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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Update:
    I have just finished the Greek unit roster. Macedon will also be complete by the end of today, and battle screens will be posted!

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  7. #47
    korsakoff's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Quote Originally Posted by ahowl11 View Post
    Update:
    I have just finished the Greek unit roster. Macedon will also be complete by the end of today, and battle screens will be posted!
    Good to hear

  8. #48
    ahowl11's Avatar RTR Project
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Macedon's unit roster is now complete! However I will not be able to show screens right away. I seem to have lost my mouse D:
    However on a good note, I have someone making very excellent looking faction symbols. Once he is finished I will post them or he might post them himself.
    I believe that I will move on to working on Pontus and Armenia for now

    Also I have a better understanding of making an AOR system now thanks to debux, but I cannot decide if I should have it set up where it is similar to the Spartan Hoplite where you can recruit the unit in the barracks but only in certain regions or if I should add a second barracks that recruits AOR units. It seems like the first idea would be better, but that means I would have to give AOR units to every faction! What can I do that is simple and effective?

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  9. #49
    Spike's Avatar Cute Lil' Dragon
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    check your cat, if it eat your mouse....

    and about the AOR, it's your own choice, if you think XGM version is better, use separate AOR barracks, if you think united barracks is better, use that...

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  10. #50
    Nik100's Avatar Kabe difendā
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    I want to help this mod as a researcher. What should I do? What information or pictures are needed?

  11. #51
    Punic Hoplite's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    I say the AOR barracks would be good. You could have the low level units trained in the AOR fashion, but then your high level troops (Legionaries, Royal Pikemen and such) could be trained in the regular barracks, but you'd need the AOR barracks made first.

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  12. #52
    ahowl11's Avatar RTR Project
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    How do I make one?

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  13. #53
    hameleona's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Well, if you don't want the barracks to be buildable in a particular level... i have no idea, exept to make the vanilla barracks entry the AOR barracks, and a new building for the "regular" ones.

    Just copy the barracks entry, then paste it somewhere in the EDB, and edit it as you can learn from here: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...uide-%28WIP%29
    Don't know if the barracks are somewhat hardcoded. It's easier to use them for the low-levels of the city, and a new building for the high levels.
    In HRTW i actually made a Mercenary Barracks for the carthaginians, and it was one of the simplest things i have made. Just remember to edit the export_buildings.txt - if you don't you'll get a nasty errorless CTD.

  14. #54
    debux's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    I would make many units as AoR (if not all)... why wouldn't Carthage recruit the Latin hastati/principes/triarii once they conquered Rome?

    But it's your mod, after all. No idea on how to make it simple, you can always ask a dev of a more experienced and mature mod to see how they did it.
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  15. #55
    Jzech's Avatar Ashigaru
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Hello everyone, I'm the person that ahowl11 mentioned when he said someone was working on some new faction symbols. So without further delay, here's the symbols for each faction in the mod.

    Spoiler for Symbol Preview

    Credit goes to Redfox and the DTW team for the Roman and Seleucid symbols, and to SubRosa and the ATW team for the Numidian symbol.
    Last edited by Jzech; May 20, 2012 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Giving Credit
    “Life is a storm, my young friend. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes.” -Alexandre Dumas

  16. #56
    korsakoff's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Wow Awesome work jzech

  17. #57
    tianzong's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    first of all good work but... why do some have the same faction symbols as before? (like the illirians have the scipii symbol)

  18. #58
    korsakoff's Avatar Vexillifer
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Quote Originally Posted by tianzong View Post
    first of all good work but... why do some have the same faction symbols as before? (like the illirians have the scipii symbol)
    it saves time instead of making new ones and the illyrans are blue so makes sense

  19. #59
    Richard of Gloucester's Avatar Warsong Chief
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Nice job

  20. #60
    tianzong's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Extended Rome: Total War [WIP]

    Quote Originally Posted by evilkinevil View Post
    it saves time instead of making new ones and the illyrans are blue so makes sense
    Ah ,ok. didn't know that. I saw another mod and there they were brown so you know.

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