Background for 'Game of Thrones' Discussion

[Majonga]

Since the problem of the Game of Thrones background has been causing problems recently in several threads, I wanted to bring all of these discussions into one thread. Now its been shown that a lack of an establish background is causing inconsistencies and confusion in the RP and I am inclined to agree. What I want to produce is a thread which all existing players and new prospective players can look at to get an Idea of the history of Game of Thrones and particularly, 'how our Westeros Universe differs from that of the official cannon.' I think this is important because It is a good introduction to the game for new players and it gives a stable playing field for all players to work off of.

As far as I am aware the main thing we have to justify why there is a Tyrell King, rather a Baratheon one. I am sure there are other players whose background diverges from Cannon, so if you think there is anything in what we produce that contradicts your background please post in this thread and we can work out a compromise. I personally would like to have cannon run up to a certain point, where 'history' or cannon changes. We will call this the divergence point. Everything before the divergence point will be cannon and will be set in stone. What happens after the divergence point is what we have to decide. Now I want to avoid forcing everyone to rewrite their characters and families but we shall see.

The general consensus appears to be that we are starting in the year 297 After Landing, which is the year that the Books and the Series start.

The most obvious point of divergence is of course Roberts Rebellion in 282 After Landing. Rosencruz certainly sent me a few thoughts and Dance has provided his own explanation in other threads. Since Clagius is the Tyrell player he will obviously have to give his seal of approval to certain things, since it affects his characters. Now the cause of the Robert's rebellion was this chain events:

The conflict was instigated after Rhaegar Targaryen had kidnapped Lyanna Stark, who was betrothed to Robert Baratheon. Despite the pleading of Hoster Tully for patience, her brother Brandon Stark rode to the city of King's Landing. There, he went into the Red Keep shouting for Prince Rhaegar to come out and die. King Aerys II arrested him and his companions (his squire Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and the nephew and heir of the Lord of the Eyrie Elbert Arryn) for threatening and conspiring to murder the crown prince.

King Aerys II, who had become increasingly paranoid, since his several months of confined imprisonment during the Defiance of Duskendale, had ordered the fathers of the prisoners to come south to answer the charges against their sons. When they did, they and their sons were all murdered without trial. Ethan Glover was the only survivor. Lord Rickard Stark who demanded a trial by combat was roasted in his armor, as his son Brandon Stark was put in a strangulation device and was forced to watch, strangling himself in the process of trying to save his father. Soon after, the Mad King demanded the heads of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark from their guardian, Jon Arryn, Lord Arryn of the Eyrie. Rather than comply, Lord Arryn raised his banners in revolt against these unjust acts.

When Lord Arryn raised his banners in revolt, many of his bannermen sided with the King, chief among them Lord Grafton, who called the other loyalists to aid him in barring the rebels from entering the port of Gulltown. Eddard Stark decided to make his own way back to the North via the Fingers. Gulltown's defenses eventually fell and Robert was able to return to Storm's End. Both men then called on their own bannermen.

Next House Tully joined the war on the rebels' side, following the marrige of Eddard and Jon to Catelyn and Lysa respectively, binding House Stark, Tully and Arryn togther. However, like in the Vale, not all the Tully bannermen joined the rebel cause. Houses Ryger, Darry, and Mooton took the side of the Targaryens in the war and Frey remained neutral until the situation became clearer.

After all the rebels were united, it was decided they would stand behind Robert, whose grandmother had been the daughter of King Aegon V Targaryen, giving him the best claim to the throne outside of Aerys, his children and grandchildren.

In turn, King Aerys summoned his own banners. All Targaryen bannermen responded as did House Tyrell and Martell who stayed loyal to the throne as did all of their bannermen, including Redwyne and Hightower. However, House Lannister, led by Tywin Lannister, who had recently resigned his post as Hand of the King ignored the summons, while House Greyjoy decided to remain neutral throughout the conflict.

If possible I would like to stick to this as much as possible, hopefully we can just change some names and swap some things around. Neither Bjorn nor Clagius have put any history for their families so that makes things significantly easier in finding a conclusion.

One way to approach this in my mind, is suggest that, instead of Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna Stark he Kidnaps the aunt of King Tyrion, A character we can easily invent. King Tyrion's Uncle and Grandfather were then executed by King Aerys and so Tyrion's father rose in rebellion. The Tyrell rebellion would obviously be opposed by the Martells of Dorne, who are loyal to the Targaryens and this links with Dance's background. The Baratheons would also oppose the Tyrells if we keep the cannon Baratheon background and Bjorn's Lord Gawen is the son of Rhaella Targaryeon. The Lannisters and Greyjoys would likely remain neutral once more. The only question I have is why the Vale, the North and the Riverlands would side with the Tyrells.

There are dozens of other possibilities and I am trying to figure out a satisfactory way to solve it. If you have any ideas feel free to share.

[Majonga]

Or, to solve everything we could make some-one else king. It makes sense considering the player who was actually rolled for kingship was RTH.

We could seriously solve alot of the background issues by having anyone but a Targaryen Loyalist as the king, becuase that means we have a lot to change.

The Baratheons, Starks, Tully's, Arryns, heck even the Lannisters would make more sense cannon wise. Since they all joined the rebellion.

If we had a rebel family as King it would that Roberts rebellion would be almost exactly the same except with a different name.

[jakev2]

Alternatively (and I'm not saying this is a good idea, it's just an idea), we could say that Robert's Rebellion happened acoording to canon except it was a Tyrell (Tyrion's sister or something like that) rather than Elia of Dorne who was married to Rhaegar, and thus the Tyrells had the best claim to the throne once the Targaryens were gone. After the defeat of the Targaryen forces at the Trident, we could say the Tyrells met with Robert and agreed to finish off the Targaryens as long as a Tyrell became King. This would explain the attitude of the Dornish towards the Tyrells, as they would be seen as traitors.

The recent coronation of Tyrion could be explained by saying that his father was King before him.

[Majonga]

Alternatively (and I'm not saying this is a good idea, it's just an idea), we could say that Robert's Rebellion happened acoording to canon except it was a Tyrell (Tyrion's sister or something like that) rather than Elia of Dorne who was married to Rhaegar, and thus the Tyrells had the best claim to the throne once the Targaryens were gone. After the defeat of the Targaryen forces at the Trident, we could say the Tyrells met with Robert and agreed to finish off the Targaryens as long as a Tyrell became King. This would explain the attitude of the Dornish towards the Tyrells, as they would be seen as traitors.

The recent coronation of Tyrion could be explained by saying that his father was King before him.

The 2nd point for definite, I forgot to say that in my post.

The 1st point could work, Rozencruz suggested something similar:

Hey, I know you're making a thread for this and all, but here's my small idea to resolve the canon vs non-canon issue

Robert's Rebellion and the events leading up to it- Remains canon.
Robert I dies before taking the throne due to boar- non-canon, sped up Robert's death
Council of Lords or something is assembled and somehow(players can decide this), the Tyrells get the crown.

The more I look at it, the simplicity of it could work.

[Narf]

I'd like for my Island to have been a small independent trading country until a certain point where a war forced them into taking sides.

[jakev2]

Something interesting which has been mentioned in the books is the Great Council.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Council

This could also be implemented to explain a Tyrell King.

[Clagius]

As Bonez said, we just swap names with Baratheon and Tyrell. So we just pretend it was Tyrion's Rebellion. I am not going to agree to anything silly just to make Dance happy.

[jakev2]

But then there would be no explanation why the Starks, Baratheons, Arryns and Tullys all allied with the Tyrells against the Targaryens.

[Clagius]

Why wouldn't? They didn't like Targaryen dominion, so they resisted them and revolted with Tyrell instead of Baratheon.

But as I stated my opinion before, the whole background story for everything is a job of Bonez and other creators.

[Lucius Malfoy]

We should still contribute as members of the community though. Yes it is seen as the job of the creators to do this stuff, we must still offer our help to make their job easier. I would feel more satisfy as a mod and player if other players helped with background instead of relying upon me to do it. Because there will be players who wouldn't agree with it...and as it is my duty as the mod, I would have to go back and edit it. Then some more players won't agree with it and I will have to go BACK AGAIN to do it. It would be annoying for the moderator and the community...plus stressful on all the minimal changes.

As a community, mods do most of the work yes...but as players, we have an obligation, in a sense, to help make the jobs of the mods easier and contribute in any way possible. The mods could always the use the opinions of others in situations like this

[Bonez]

No family history (for me at least) so I could easily say that something happened to Eddard Stark's (Lord, Winterfell) sister betrothed to one of the Targyen's stowest supporters was taken captive for *insert reason here* so his brother and father went to get her back and were killed. I go all crazy and kill some people with Ice.

Also, Lucius as the good point. Things like the Arbor incidents are great examples of this...

[Clagius]

My opinion is, that leader's decisions are to be respected. If leader decides the story will be like he wants, then so be it. No complaining, and obey.

[Narf]

My opinion is, that leader's decisions are to be respected. If leader decides the story will be like he wants, then so be it. No complaining, and obey.

You'd be a fine soldier. Take that as you want.

[Clagius]

You'd be a fine soldier. Take that as you want.

I take that as a compliment.

[Majonga]

I think the heart of the problem in this situation is the Conflict between those who have read the books and are well versed in the ASOIAF universe and those who aren't.

Those who are well versed, have an attachment to characters and the feel of G. R. R. Martin's Books. Also it is easier on them to stick to cannon as they know it so well. So for the most part, they want to stick to the official GoT with a few tweaks to make it their own.

Then there are those who aren't so well versed in ASOIAF. The problem for them is they are jumping in at the deep end and they would rather sandbox things than have to go through the gargantuan effort of learning all about a complete fantasy world.

As moderators and community, we have to find a balance between the two. I believe I speak for everyone when I say that from game-start it is pretty much anything goes, you can call your characters what you want, fight who you want, RP how you want. So what we need to resolve is what happened before.

Something interesting which has been mentioned in the books is the Great Council.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Council

This could also be implemented to explain a Tyrell King.

This works well with Rozencruz's proposal and I would support it.

Very briefly Cannon continues as is, capture of Lyanna Stark by Rhaegar and whatnot stays. All that happens is that Robert dies before he is crowned and a Council is held, with the Tyrells made Kings. I think its reasonably plausible and would create interesting RP on the hand of the Baratheons, who may still have a claim to the throne and whatnot.

Tyrion would simply be the son of the Tyrell King Crowned after Robert's Rebellion and he has just been crowned in 297 AL.

[jakev2]

Sounds good to me, the only question I would have is why a Tyrell would be voted King when they fought for the Targaryens, initally at least.

[Xion]

Bribery? Lack of a another reasonable candidate and the Tyrells having some very distant claim to the Iron Throne via marriage to the Targaryens?

Or we could just have Robert live, but have married a Tyrell who becomes Queen instead of Ceresi and Tyrion is the son of that marriage and takes the throne when he dies due to boar attack?

[Bonez]

New thread, Poll 5 options if they are approved here first.

1- Robert Baratheon wins the War of the Usurper and had married a Tyrell beforehand, having a son(Tyrion) who takes the throne after his death. Everything else remains canon but still explains the Tyrell King. (assume they took back the name for some reason...)
2- The idea posted in that thread about the Great Council
3- Rhaegar got the throne and the Targaryens still rule
4- Tyrion rebelled, but a far more bloody war was fought since Aerys is even more deranged. Aerys was killed trying to burn those who had invaded his palace alive.
5- Re-roll the King..?

[Majonga]

Sounds good to me, the only question I would have is why a Tyrell would be voted King when they fought for the Targaryens, initally at least.

I would explain it as a compromise, heck I would be willing to say Hoster Tully refused to recognise Stannis as Robert's heir and with Lannister backing they were able to place the Tyrells on the throne. Not many people would want Stannis as king.

[Majonga]

New thread, Poll 5 options if they are approved here first.

1- Robert Baratheon wins the War of the Usurper and had married a Tyrell beforehand, having a son(Tyrion) who takes the throne after his death. Everything else remains canon but still explains the Tyrell King. (assume they took back the name for some reason...)
2- The idea posted in that thread about the Great Council
3- Rhaegar got the throne and the Targaryens still rule
4- Tyrion rebelled, but a far more bloody war was fought since Aerys is even more deranged. Aerys was killed trying to burn those who had invaded his palace alive.
5- Re-roll the King..?

First one could work nicely actually. Except Tyrion would be a Baratheon and he would have to be younger.