Protestantism and the Bible - A Misguided Connection

[Carpathian Wolf]

Oh my God your non sense is so delusional. Just answer the question. I don't want a whole rant built in misconstructions and strawmen. Once more, " Basics, let's say someone like you is "born again" yet they hit their head and lose their memory of when it happened, yet they still believe in Christ...are they Christian or not?"

[Matthias]

Once more, " Basics, let's say someone like you is "born again" yet they hit their head and lose their memory of when it happened, yet they still believe in Christ...are they Christian or not?"

You can't argue logically with faith. He's just repeating what he has been told. You argue the same nonsense and delusion as well, just in another way. Such is religion.

Not sure exactly what basics believes, but being raised Protestant, I remember some denominations, Baptists especially, stress the fact that being raised Christian doesn't make you one, that when you come to a certain age where you can think on your own, you must accept it yourself, be "born again", not just follow the religion because your mom was, your culture is, etc. etc. Basically, you must convert to the religion.

Kinda makes sense in the fact that at least they acknowledge indoctrinating children isn't assurance that they'll believe it otherwise. If you were raised Muslim, you'd very likely be a Muslim, etc. etc, and it has little to nothing to do with the person's beliefs. Well, duh. Something religious people don't like to think about.

[basics]

" Not sure exactly what basics believes,....."

Matthias,

I believe that Jesus Christ died on a cross for me and that that was assured the day that God changed my life by being born again. In that action Jesus Christ was revealed to me as being my Saviour through Him dying on a cross where that should have been me and in fact was me yet in my Substitute. The result is that to me Jesus Christ lives in me and me in Him. My old nature has long gone being replaced by one that belongs to Christ. I stand on the word of God as anyone here can see because if I didn't I would be on sandy ground leaving the solidity of the word behind as religions have this tendency to do.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Oh my God your non sense is so delusional. Just answer the question. I don't want a whole rant built in misconstructions and strawmen. Once more, " Basics, let's say someone like you is "born again" yet they hit their head and lose their memory of when it happened, yet they still believe in Christ...are they Christian or not?"

[classical_hero]

Romans 8:28,38-39 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Jesus knows who are is sheep and he will call them. You do realise that people who get amnesia can recover their memory, but the most important thing is that God knows who are his children.

[basics]

classical_hero,

Now how wonderful is that just quoted? If only Carpathian Wolf could see it.

[Carpathian Wolf]

Romans 8:28,38-39 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Jesus knows who are is sheep and he will call them. You do realise that people who get amnesia can recover their memory, but the most important thing is that God knows who are his children.

Exactly. So simply sputtering a recollection of something like "the moment I was saved" is silly.

[basics]

" Exactly. So simply sputtering a recollection of something like "the moment I was saved" is silly."

Carpathian Wolf,

Now how did I know you wouldn't grasp the meaning of what is above. Paul is writing to a church of believers and is confirming to them what it is they actually believe in and from where it comes. Therefore it is not silly to remember the day of one's conversion simply because in reality that was the day their old life went and a new life in Jesus Christ started.

Notice the first quote, " ...to them who are called according to His purpose." Before the worlds were made their names were put into the book of life. When Jesus died on the cross for them salvation was a surety. And the day of their calling being the day they were born again of the Spirit of God was the day that new life entered them, therefore it certainly was a day they could rejoice in and remember.

Then Paul goes on to assert, " For I am persuaded........" Persuaded of what? That by his own experience and now theirs, nothing can separate them from the love of God, why? Because they all have a new life in Christ Jesus come about at their calling wherever and whenever that happened. In later letters, perhaps even this one, he reminds them of that because by then some were being persuaded of other things that had nothing to do with their salvation.

The quotes from John confirm what Paul has said. I don't mean that this was intentional as I don't know that John actually read any of Paul's letters, the thing is he didn't have to to know of being born again and from whom it came. " My sheep......" That is them given to Him by His Father and for whom He shed blood for at Calvary. They know His voice, why? Because the blood made them one in each other settled at rebirth. And so john reiterates the words of Jesus by saying more or less what Paul also said. That once saved, nothing could take them out of God's hands.

Now that is one very large promise fulfilled to them that are born again. There is no ambiguity about it. The day one realises that their sins have gone and a new life in Jesus Christ is now reality is not something that one lets pass over their head. It is something that the heart will always cherish and why that broken body will always be before them in remembrance. It is why we take bread and wine. Now explain to me why all that is silly?

[Carpathian Wolf]

You aren't saying anything. I asked you a simple question and you can't give an answer.

[basics]

Carpathian Wolf,

Of course to you I am saying nothing because nothing penetrates that head of yours. Jesus said that a man must be born again to enter heaven. Tell us what that means? Concerning the question of someone falling on their head and losing his memory, if they were born again when that happened, the fruit of the Spirit being in him would still show out because the Spirit in him is God and God doesn't lose memory.

I would have thought that you wouldn't have to ask such a silly question but knowing you as one of guile it comes as no surprise. But then I don't suppose you even realise that in your post 162 you are taking the Lord's name in vain either, such is your religious zealotry. Do you really think that if the Spirit of God were in you He would have let you say such a thing? That is a serious question so please give us an honest answer.

[Carpathian Wolf]

It's a simple yes/no question. If someone forgets the moment they were saved because they hit their head, but continue to be Christian, are they saved or not?

[classical_hero]

Considering he is agreeing with what i said, I think you are being obtuse, since I answered the question.

[basics]

" It's a simple yes/no question. If someone forgets the moment they were saved because they hit their head, but continue to be Christian, are they saved or not?"

Carpathian Wolf,

If you look at post 171, the first paragraph, you will see the answer which on reflection still won't penetrate that brain of yours. So. let that be an end to the subject as classical_hero also confirms it albeit in a slightly different manner. Yet still, I have this feeling that you are using a hypothetical arrangement to cover your own innability to say how it was you were reborn as according to you you have always been a Christian.

If that were the case then it denies Jesus' own words that sinners must be regenerate to enter heaven something else you have problems accepting as you don't accept original sin being inherited through every generation. Claiming to have always been a Christian must mean that you deny being a sinner in accordance to what is written concerning the first Adam and the Last. It is funny that this lost memory has only come up recently and especially when repeatedly asked how Jesus Christ took over your life, something that you are unable to answer.

[Carpathian Wolf]

It's a simple yes/no question. If someone forgets the moment they were saved because they hit their head, but continue to be Christian, are they saved or not?

Y/N?

[Portuguese Rebel]

Since basics seems unable to give a coherent answer let me simplify. "Born again" means that whatever the hell you did before isn't forgotten but it should not count in the final books of the Almighty when he is deciding who to send to hell and who to send to that place with the 70 virgins... Errr... Ok maybe it doesn't have 70 virgins, you theists should get your needles straight on that one.

Basically it makes them feel good about whatever they done or were before being "born again". Nonsensical protestant baloney...

[Carpathian Wolf]

I'm referring to how basics thinks i'm going to hell because I can't recall some specific event or time in my life where i was all "And jesus is my bff and i love him" etc. I've always believed and i don't remember a time I have not. There have been times ive had my doubt and such but to me it simply made sense and always had made sense.

[Portuguese Rebel]

I'm referring to how basics thinks i'm going to hell because I can't recall some specific event or time in my life where i was all "And jesus is my bff and i love him" etc. I've always believed and i don't remember a time I have not. There have been times ive had my doubt and such but to me it simply made sense and always had made sense.

One particularity of some protestant american cults is that they believe that only their own cult is worthy of heaven. And they use expressions such as "born again", and others, to signify the allegiance to that particular form of cult. And yes, according to them all the papists and their eastern cousins, the orthodox, are going to burn in hell for not being "christian enough".

My personal view is that you really should not concern yourself too much. They don't make sense even within the theist thinking frame, so unless god is one illogical git you should be safe

[basics]

" Since basics seems unable to give a coherent answer let me simplify. "Born again" means that whatever the hell you did before isn't forgotten but it should not count in the final books of the Almighty when he is deciding who to send to hell and who to send to that place with the 70 virgins... Errr... Ok maybe it doesn't have 70 virgins, you theists should get your needles straight on that one. Basically it makes them feel good about whatever they done or were before being "born again". Nonsensical protestant baloney..."

Portugese Rebel,

I see you too suffer from the same inability the Carpathian Wolf does to understand that some questions cannot be answered in a fashion of yes or no. If one considers that this question is hypothetical and not factual, is set to trap me in some manner because he thinks that it gets him off the hook because he can't relate the day or time his life was changed is not the trap I am prepared to step into, why?

I and all born again Christians stand solely on the word of God being God's word. The difficulty you both have is in understanding what the need for being born again means. I am being called out because I keep referring to this bff Jesus yet it is Him who delivered that need to man. But let me emphasise for you both what it does mean.

It means that a sinner has the innerman or woman changed from being a sinner to belonging to Christ through His purchase of them at the cross by His blood. It is the surety that that precious blood achieved for them what God promised from the beginning. Therefore, when that change comes, takes effect, the old life has passed away to be replaced by a new life in Jesus Christ as Paul relates in his letter to the Romans. The point that is driven home here is that no-one can experience such a change that they cannot remember it happening.

If one is however Anglican, Church of Scotland, Roman Catholic and or Orthodox that is taken away by the sprinkling or immersing in water whereby from that experience, mostly babies, they are told that they are Christian, totally without any recognition of sin and so cuts out entirely the words of God in Jesus Christ who says that they need to be born again but not of water as confirmed by the Baptist but of the Holy Spirit in terms of fire.

What fire has to do with regeneration is quite simple. It denotes that sin in the recipient is burnt out as the chaff is separated from the wheat and dealt with. At the cross when the blood was shed for sin the Hebrew for that is translated into a best known word used often by Scots as scourged. The word emphasises clearly the power of God in that blood to eraze sin just as fire does. These are not simple expressions that can be passed over by men passing as priests.

In the process of the revelation of Jesus Christ to a recipient of regeneration, it is the very shame brought to bear on that person that leads to conviction, to the understanding, that this one wonderful act by Him should have been their horror and not His as the price for what they were. Any who have ever experienced this can never forget it. I only repeat what Scripture says so if anyone is destined for hell it is God who is saying that and to them who are not listening.

[frozenprince]

" Since basics seems unable to give a coherent answer let me simplify. "Born again" means that whatever the hell you did before isn't forgotten but it should not count in the final books of the Almighty when he is deciding who to send to hell and who to send to that place with the 70 virgins... Errr... Ok maybe it doesn't have 70 virgins, you theists should get your needles straight on that one. Basically it makes them feel good about whatever they done or were before being "born again". Nonsensical protestant baloney..."

Portugese Rebel,

I see you too suffer from the same inability the Carpathian Wolf does to understand that some questions cannot be answered in a fashion of yes or no. If one considers that this question is hypothetical and not factual, is set to trap me in some manner because he thinks that it gets him off the hook because he can't relate the day or time his life was changed is not the trap I am prepared to step into, why?

I and all born again Christians stand solely on the word of God being God's word. The difficulty you both have is in understanding what the need for being born again means. I am being called out because I keep referring to this bff Jesus yet it is Him who delivered that need to man. But let me emphasise for you both what it does mean.

It means that a sinner has the innerman or woman changed from being a sinner to belonging to Christ through His purchase of them at the cross by His blood. It is the surety that that precious blood achieved for them what God promised from the beginning. Therefore, when that change comes, takes effect, the old life has passed away to be replaced by a new life in Jesus Christ as Paul relates in his letter to the Romans. The point that is driven home here is that no-one can experience such a change that they cannot remember it happening.

If one is however Anglican, Church of Scotland, Roman Catholic and or Orthodox that is taken away by the sprinkling or immersing in water whereby from that experience, mostly babies, they are told that they are Christian, totally without any recognition of sin and so cuts out entirely the words of God in Jesus Christ who says that they need to be born again but not of water as confirmed by the Baptist but of the Holy Spirit in terms of fire.

What fire has to do with regeneration is quite simple. It denotes that sin in the recipient is burnt out as the chaff is separated from the wheat and dealt with. At the cross when the blood was shed for sin the Hebrew for that is translated into a best known word used often by Scots as scourged. The word emphasises clearly the power of God in that blood to eraze sin just as fire does. These are not simple expressions that can be passed over by men passing as priests.

In the process of the revelation of Jesus Christ to a recipient of regeneration, it is the very shame brought to bear on that person that leads to conviction, to the understanding, that this one wonderful act by Him should have been their horror and not His as the price for what they were. Any who have ever experienced this can never forget it. I only repeat what Scripture says so if anyone is destined for hell it is God who is saying that and to them who are not listening.

I can actually FEEL the pretension of this post through my laptop screen. Not an easy feat at all mind you, and not one I would take any particular pride in.

Just ignore him CW, he is so utterly convinced that his particular brand of christianity and his particular way of finding the path are the only right ones that you'll never make a dent.

I personnaly find the position revolting, that one needs to reject god, then accept him again in order to avoid damnnation. If one has been a christian his or her entire life, that makes them non-christians? And not just accept him, accept him in one particular way, none other can prevent you from going to hell.

[basics]

" I personnaly find the position revolting, that one needs to reject god, then accept him again in order to avoid damnnation. And not just accept him, accept him in one particular way, none other can prevent you from going to hell."

frozenprince,

Of course you do, why? Because it is also written that the Gospel is an offence to them that don't believe. It is not a case of just rejecting God then accepting Him again. It is a case of realising how far into sin that you are and denying it that separates you from God. As Paul writes, all fall short of the glory of God and therefore all are under condemnation that is until regeneration becomes a reality in your life, something that no-one ever forgets. But then what does God or His own know about these things when there are guys like you and Carpathian Wolf around?