Circumcision - a breach of children's rights?

[Qasper]

Is circumcision "a sever and irreversible interference into physical integrity" [of children]? - quoting the below quoted/mentioned 'Times of Israel'.

I have come to know that over 50% of male US citizens are circumcised and life with a surgically modified willy:

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/
http://mgmbill.org/statistics.htm
http://www.circumstitions.com/USA.html


A local German court has now ruled (for secular - non-anti-Semite and non-anti-Islam - reasons) that parents and physicians can be brought to court for circumcising children:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/german-...circumcisions/

Parents having their sons circumcised can be brought before a judge for causing bodily injury, even if they did so for religious reasons, a regional court in Germany has ruled.

University of Passau jurist Holm Putzke told the FTD [= Financial Times Deutschland] the decision could have far-reaching ramifications.

“As opposed to many politicians, the court was not deterred by fears of being criticized for anti-Semitism or hostility toward religion,” he said. “This decision could not only influence future jurisdiction, it could also lead the relevant religions to change their attitude with respect to the fundamental nature of children’s rights.”

.
Here's the original (German) article in the "Financial Times - Deutschland":
(= http://www.ftd.de/politik/deutschlan.../70054618.html)

[Himster]

Uneccessary surgery?
Yeah, that's never cool......... even adults who undergo unneccessary surgery, it just seems so bizarre.

Could you imagine if this didn't exist and someone came up with it on dragon's den: My business proposal is, in exchange for thousands of euro, I will drug you and slice your body parts to make you look/feel "better".
I'm out.

[Phier]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cut, son cut, don't care, did the research, whatever.

BTW Germany is the same country which doesn't let medical devices such as orthodontic braces be made out of steel due to almost non-existent allergies. They make California look sane.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

BTW Germany is the same country which doesn't let medical devices such as orthodontic braces be made out of steel due to almost non-existent allergies.

It doesn't? Source?I've been unable to find one.

[Qasper]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Cut, son cut, don't care, did the research, whatever.

BTW Germany is the same country which doesn't let medical devices such as orthodontic braces be made out of steel due to almost non-existent allergies. They make California look sane.

What...?

In some European countries (e.g. Germany, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia or Denmark) orthodontic treatment is available without charge to patients under 18 [...] - wikipedia

Sure, Germany has a stupid health-care system. The US is far better!? And there are no qualified orthodontics in Germany either...

Your case here - regarding circumcision as a possible breach of children's rights - is that in Germany steel braces are uncommon? WTF?

[SLN445]

God do we need this flame war inducing topic in two places? Leave it the the other thread.

[Humble Warrior]

And this is what happens when some in one culture starts telling others of another how to behave. All very well when pointing the finger at those overseas, but bit by bit that finger can be turned towards those at home.

That`s why when you see someone being persecuted for their culture or belief don`t just sit back and let them be persecuted, lest when they are gone, the persecuters turn upon you and no one will be around to speak up for you.

[PointOfViewGun]

Why did you copied the same thread here?

[Qasper]

And this is what happens when some in one culture starts telling others of another how to behave. All very well when pointing the finger at those overseas, but bit by bit that finger can be turned towards those at home.

That`s why when you see someone being persecuted for their culture or belief don`t just sit back and let them be persecuted, lest when they are gone, the persecuters turn upon you and no one will be around to speak up for you.

Did you even read the OP? I guess not > "A local German court..."

Why did you copied the same thread here?

Because my original thread was merged with this crap.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because my original thread was merged with this crap.

Because posted the same crap but he posted first. Then you posted the same that was posted twice, once by you, again here.

[Mortality]

It doesn't matter. It's used the exact same way either way.

I was circumcised, I'm not Jewish, and I turned out quite fine.

[SLN445]

Mise as well give my input.
Since neither it's benefits or negatives outweigh each other In the western world, it can be considered a purely cosmetic procedure.

The question is then, do parents have the right to submit there children to cosmetic procedures based on there ideal view of how there child should look or religious belief?

[Phier]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...60#post5227660

Ah there we go...

[Qasper]

Because posted the same crap but he posted first. Then you posted the same that was posted twice, once by you, again here.

My post is far different from the other crap post. It's the same topic, granted. Though I don't jump to false and incorrect assumptions as this:

Merkel shows her true face as an anti-Semitic East German totalitarian. First she imposes austerity laws on Greece, now she institutes Nuremberg laws in her own land. Without firing a shot she has accomplished more than the Second and Third Reichs, Prussia, Hitler and Napoleon, for as head of the EU Germany has total mastery over Europe.

...but offer links to online versions of respected newspapers, along with links for valid data on circumcision in the US.

It doesn't matter. It's used the exact same way either way.

I was circumcised, I'm not Jewish, and I turned out quite fine.

I don't question that. Though why isn't such an irreversible surgical operation rescheduled to when the male person can himself dicide if he want's his foreskin permanently removed or not? I'd say: wait till a dude turns 16, 18 or 21, and then let him decide if he want's his foreskin removed. After all we are not talking about a symbolic act as eg. baptism or so, but a permanent removal of a part of ones' body. As said, if one is for foreskin-removal, you can have it done when you are grown up - no problem.
But there are people who reject their parents decicion to remove their foreskin:

Mise as well give my input.
Since neither it's benefits or negatives outweigh each other In the western world, it can be considered a purely cosmetic procedure.

A "purely cosmetic procedure"? "Plastic surgery is a medical specialty concerned with the correction or restoration of form and function." How is the removal of the foreskin a correction or restoration?

The question is then, do parents have the right to submit there children to cosmetic surgical procedures based on there ideal view of how there child should look or religious belief?

That's the point, I reckon. Why not let the boy/man decide once he's grown up? If he want's his foreskin removed, then he can always do so. No issue.

[Kanaric]

Not this again. I think everything has been said.

Also Germany passed this law. Germany attacking the rights of semetic peoples?



All your links are to biased sites created specifically to attack the right. The fact that its starting from such a poorly conceived post filled with hate links equivalent to Westboro Baptist Church in credentials and motive i'm not going to involve myself in another thread like this. Or PETA on issues of animal rights.

Causes no problems, is completely unharmful, is a parental choice. /thread

Everything posted in the other thread as "evidence" was just opinion and sites like what you posted. Not a single scientific proof. If it was scientific visually it was only about as much as eugenics.

Tired of these europeon thinly veiled anti-islamic and jewish threads filled with hearsay and lies. News: Eurabia is not going to happen, you can stop.

Also in case you didn't know newborns and babies do not have rights. The rights of theirs is the rights of the parents literally one in the same unless human rights are being violated. Of which body modification that is absolutely harmless and affects nothing in the use or opinion of others, as is the case here, is totally within the rights of the parent. ESPECIALLY when its a cultural or religious tradition.

Last post here.

[Qasper]

Not this again. I think everything has been said.

Also Germany passed this law.

A) It's not a law, but a judicial verdict
B) The verdict wasn't issued by "Germany" or it's government, but by a local judge (indepenendt of the government) in Cologne

Germany attacking the rights of semetic peoples?

Are you implying that Germany is anti-Semetic? How does this fit your view -> German officials confirm submarines sold to Israel can fire nuclear-tipped cruise missiles

All your links are to biased sites created specifically to attack the right.

No, they aren't. Neither the The Times of Israel nor the Financial Times Deutschland are leftist paper, and the other links show data on circumcision in the US.

The fact that its starting from such a poorly conceived post filled with hate links equivalent to Westboro Baptist Church in credentials and motive i'm not going to involve myself in another thread like this. Or PETA on issues of animal rights.

Causes no problems, is completely unharmful, is a parental choice. /thread

Everything posted in the other thread as "evidence" was just opinion and sites like what you posted. Not a single scientific proof. If it was scientific visually it was only about as much as eugenics.

Tired of these europeon thinly veiled anti-islamic and jewish threads filled with hearsay and lies. News: Eurabia is not going to happen, you can stop.

Also in case you didn't know newborns and babies do not have rights. The rights of theirs is the rights of the parents literally one in the same unless human rights are being violated. Of which body modification that is absolutely harmless and affects nothing in the use or opinion of others, as is the case here, is totally within the rights of the parent. ESPECIALLY when its a cultural or religious tradition.

Last post here.

I've lost you, sorry. "eugenics"(?), "europeon thinly veiled anti-islamic and jewish threads" (I guess you meant: "European, thinly veiled anti-Islamic and anti-Jewish threads"), "newborns and babies do not have rights"...

[PointOfViewGun]

There is no need to have more than one thread for this crap.

[Col. Tartleton]

If a kid sues his parents for chopping it off could another kid sue his parents for not cutting it off when he was a baby?

[boofhead]

If a kid sues his parents for chopping it off could another kid sue his parents for not cutting it off when he was a baby?

Probably. I knew an uncircumcised guy who got such an infection he had to have it off at age 13 and went through sheer hell. He could probably sue (if he hadn't died thru unrelated events).

[Hakkapeliitta]

Probably. I knew an uncircumcised guy who got such an infection he had to have it off at age 13 and went through sheer hell. He could probably sue (if he hadn't died thru unrelated events).

Well, but for us who have a culture of hygiene that's not a problem. I mean hell, it's a fold of skin! A vagina is a goddamn deep fold of skin, but I don't complain about it. Yet it's made of the same stuff.

But anyway, as long as you have the brains to wash yourself then you're whatever you are. Worth it?