If the next Total War is in Asia

[complete noob:(]

There were actually 9-10 Chinese states.

As well as the Koreans who were in contact with the Chinese, the Xiongnu who basically were ancient Mongols, the Proto-Vietnamese/Sino-Vietnamese cultures who were documented as having some of the best Heavy Cavalry in Asia due to their advanced Iron Smelting techniques, and if you go far enough West, the Indians and maybe even Persians.

While I wouldn't mind a TW game in Asia, I just don't see it as being as appealing as, say, Rome 2 or Victoria. Ask the average fan if they would rather be the emperor of Rome or the Chanyu of Xiongnu, 99% will say Rome. I just don't think it will happen

[Intranetusa]

While I wouldn't mind a TW game in Asia, I just don't see it as being as appealing as, say, Rome 2 or Victoria. Ask the average fan if they would rather be the emperor of Rome or the Chanyu of Xiongnu, 99% will say Rome. I just don't think it will happen

Most people would not want to be the leader of a nomadic steppe faction they've never heard of. Agrarian factions have more food and better women.

[Dave Strider]

I don't believe the Sino-Vietnamese ever had heavy cavalry. They had elephants which were used for war, but the tropical jungle climates and their lack of horse grazing land meant they had little to no cavalry, let alone heavy cavalry.

For non Sinitic kingdoms, the northern steppe kingdoms did have heavy cavalry in the ancient era. And the western provinces of the Han empire was basically bordering/very close to Kushan, Bactria, Parthia, etc...who all had their own heavy cavalry.

The later proto Tibetans and Korean peninsula kingdoms developed heavy cavalry in the early middle ages.

Oh no, trust me, they did. There are folk stories of Vietnamese youths riding off "atop armor-clad horses, wielding long iron staffs, clothed in scale armor" to save their country.

[Intranetusa]

Oh no, trust me, they did. There are folk stories of Vietnamese youths riding off "atop armor-clad horses, wielding long iron staffs, clothed in scale armor" to save their country.

Interesting. That must be the Middle Ages then. In the ancient era of East Asia, only the Han Empire and nomads had armor-clad horses...the Han had to obtain larger horses from Central Asia too. And even the Han didn't have full horse armor until the 3 kingdoms to early Jin era.

[Enarec]

Asia: Total War is one of my preferances besides Persia: Total War, Rome II: Total War and Dark Age: Total War. The Mongol Invasions would be the best setting in my opinion, starting in 1206 when Temujin becomes Genghis Khan. There would be many factions with different cultures and units. For example:

The Mongol Khanate, The Jin Dynasty, the Song Dynasty, the Tangut Empire, the Kara-Khanid Khanate, the Kara-Khitan Khanate, the Ghurid Sultanate, the Khwarezmid Empire, the Cuman-Kipchak Confederation, the Khmer Empire, the Kingdom of Goryeo, the Indian Rajput States, the Kingdom of Champa, Dai Viet, South-East Asian States (Kediri, Srivijaya...), the Kingdom of Dali, et cetera...

[Dave Strider]

Interesting. That must be the Middle Ages then. In the ancient era of East Asia, only the Han Empire and nomads had armor-clad horses...the Han had to obtain larger horses from Central Asia too. And even the Han didn't have full horse armor until the 3 kingdoms to early Jin era.

Nope, this was in 500 BC. In fact, it's possible that the Han learned Iron Smelting from the Vietnamese.

[Intranetusa]

Nope, this was in 500 BC. In fact, it's possible that the Han learned Iron Smelting from the Vietnamese.

That is incorrect, because iron smelting predates the Han Dynasty. Rudimentary iron working occurred before the 1st millennium BCE and advanced iron metallurgy occurred around the 6th century BCE according to archeological findings. Iron working was independently discovered in Southern Vietnamese kingdoms and in the early Sinitic cultures.

Furthermore, the tale of the rider in iron armor and armored horse is referring to the "Legend of the Going." It's a myth that most likely incorporated many anachronistic elements into the tale.

The kingdoms in northern Vietnam such as Dong Song were sophisticated in bronze metallurgy, but there is no evidence that iron was widespread by the 5th century BCE, besides the occasional iron implement.

Southern Vietnam's Sa Huynh did have an Iron Age, however, but there is no evidence of horse armor. From what I've read so far, there there is no archeological evidence that the Sa Huynh had comprehensive iron armor for soldiers either (unless you can link me to something that states the contrary). So far the only thing I've come up with is an archeologist named Charles Higham uncovering iron weapons and implements, but not armor. South Vietnam was at a latitude lower than Egypt. The Egyptians did not wear heavy metal armor due to the extreme heat and climate. It is likely it was the same for the proto-Vietnamese.

Furthermore, the use of horses as war cavalry was not common in the region during the ancient period (at least for South Vietnam's Sa Huynh culture) - especially since so much of both north and south Vietnam is subtropical jungle - which is a great hindrance for cavalry warfare.


Thus:
1. The hot, humid, jungles of South Vietnam meant that it is highly unlikely horses were widely used as cavalry. There is no archeological evidence of ancient era cavalry forces either (at least not that I know of).

2. North Vietnam was still mostly a bronze age culture at the time, and iron metallurgy was not widespread.

3. There has been no archeological or contemporary written evidence of any horse armor during the ancient era. I actually haven't found anything that involved iron armor for people either (if you know of any, please link me).

4. Kingdoms in Vietnam did not have access to the larger and stronger Central Asian horses that were traditionally equipped with metal horse armor.

[milanista]

No more damn Ninja games! ROMA VICTOR!

[Intranetusa]

No more damn Ninja games! ROMA VICTOR!

If you played Rome: Total War, you'd know that game has ninjas too. And Shogun is the only other series with ninjas.

So you don't want RTW 2 then?

[Noif de Bodemloze]

CHINA!

[Intranetusa]

CHINA!

I only want ancient China if it's done right to include many other factions.

The Han Dynasty that stretches from the Sea of Japan to the edges of the Parthian Empire & Kushan Empire. Bactria with their hoplites would fit nicely in the geography. And they can include Seleucids and phalangite armies in the West too. Add in Korean peninsula kingdoms, many different nomads, silk road city-states, Central Asian kingdoms, proto-SouthEast Asian kingdoms with elephants, Northern Indian kingdoms with thousands of war elephants, etc

[Bethencourt]

I only want ancient China if it's done right to include many other factions.

The Han Dynasty that stretches from the Sea of Japan to the edges of the Parthian Empire & Kushan Empire. Bactria with their hoplites would fit nicely in the geography. And they can include Seleucids and phalangite armies in the West too. Add in Korean peninsula kingdoms, many different nomads, silk road city-states, Central Asian kingdoms, proto-SouthEast Asian kingdoms with elephants, Northern Indian kingdoms with thousands of war elephants, etc

Looks nice.