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Thread: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

  1. #1
    amelius's Avatar Yari-hei
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    Default Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    Ok so this is going to be a long read since i put some thought into this so bear with me if you can,

    I know in Europa Barbarorum I there where military reforms, for certains factions based on what we know about them and that in the game you had to meet certain requirements to go through those reforms. I think thats a great feature for the game and I hope to see that again in Europa Barbarorum II but would it be possible if certain factions go through a government transition as well. For example, the Roman Republic goes through a government transition into the Rome Empire headed by a dictator or emperor after meeting certain requirements. The benefits of meeting those requirements could include ancillaries and traits bonuses or change in public order and can spur civil wars. I think there I many possibilities to chose from, i'm going to use the Romani as an example, I know the romani(roman republic) will deal with a scripted civil war similar to roma surrectum in Europa Barbarorum II except they use a rebel faction instead of a Roman Faction to save a faction slot. However what if you could recreate the Civil War in Rome which involved a certain "Julius Caesar" family member going to war with the senators after the senators ask him for a premature end to the family members consulship(the consulship being represented by a trait as planned) and retire(your family member disappears from the game. You would be given a notification where if you accept the senators demands, you avoid a civil war with a rebels faction.

    If you decline however. The rebel faction would spawn in in your territory with family members heading them. Those rebels are in control of certain settlements in your in your factions and the rebel army is headed by a family member who sole purpose to to take over all your settlements and wipe you from the map. The senators are to be considered rebels from your point of view for the sake of game play. If you manage to take the settlements and kill the rebels family members(being the senators) your complete your mission and your "Julius Caesar" family member loses the train consulship and gains the trait dictator or something similar to that. This could add command bonuses influences and add public order bonuses or whatever you would like to add or take. Now how would the "Julius Caesar" family member be able to spawn the mission in the first place? Well, just like how you can transition from a Marian to Augustan military reform, you can transition from a Roman Republic to a Autocratic type government using your family member. All your family members needs is a Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous trait or whatever would represents a "Julius Caesar" and also conquer a certain amount of territories or if you want to get historical, you can have the requirement be the Gallic territories which Julius controlled before the civil war. Once you've met these requirements and completed the civil war mission, your notified about the change in your governments political system and your faction is now headed by a family member who instead of retaining the given the trait of consulship, is given the "dictator" trait or whatever you would use. And when that family member dies, the next one to become faction leader and gains the trait of "dictator" ect.

    Now this was only an example for the Romani Faction, let me add that I dont mean to make the game sound Roman eccentric because I know the team wants to avoid that. However, since there were other civil wars of this type, they could be represent in game, it adds a very flexible and dynamic edge to the game. These government transitions could involve socio-political conflicts or political-military conflicts like with the Seleucids and whatnot. Im thinking that these changes could not only give family member traits and ancillaries but also give them access to new buildings and units, think of the possibilities. This idea is partly inspired by how Europa Universalis works. Your able to change your government and gain bonus but also have to deal with the consequences of your actions. You have to weigh your decision about what happens if I go through with his. Now all of the sudden Total War isn't just about having to create units and take over this settlement and that settlement. Now instead of waging war, building units and buildings, you have to deal with political and social issues. You now have to manage your faction from not just one angle(build, conquer) but from different angles. And If the Europa Babarorum is able to improve the A.I. up to that of Euruopa Universalis where your allys actually help you fight other factions and better diplomacy deals, this would be the greatest mod in existence. I am more then willing to wait even longer if they can do this!

    Thank you for your time!

  2. #2
    Moros's Avatar Taihō no heishi
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    In EB we will try to portrait the government and state more accurately and actively. There are indeed plans to represent changes and evolutions in them. We are currently working on the Roman one. How it will exactly turn out is difficult to tell right now, also as I'm not one of the Romani historians, I'm not sure what the plans are.


  3. #3
    amelius's Avatar Yari-hei
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    Good to hear, I cant wait to see how what you guys come up with and i'm sure it will be daunting task with 30 factions to work on so good luck!

  4. #4
    Casual Tactician's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    Nice ideas, amelius! Quite complex, but it sounds like a lot of additional scripting involved, especially if done for, say, a good dozen or more factions, which would add to the already large (I guess) EBII script and the turn-times.

    Although I don't really need a complex (specific Romani or other faction) rebellion script, I like your post. A solid generic revolt-script, or the like, you be very fine with me - but if possible (work-load-wise and script-wise) I also wouldn't mind more... for a later release that is.


    -------

    A little off-topic - regarding rebel/shadow factions:

    Over at the War of the West forum I -- some time ago -- asked about their feature to have a rebel/shadow faction for all(!) of their factions - and their main campaign will have 23 factions. So I wondered how that is actually possible, as any rebel/shadow would need it's own slot...

    Here's what I asked and the response:
    Casual Tactician: Right, I forgot about that (I read the [mod] overview but that specific detail slipped my mind). That sounds very good, especially the “shadow faction” part. But doesn’t a shadow faction require it’s own faction slot – ie if all factions get a shadow faction, then one can only have 15 starting factions? Or have you found a smart way around that? I’m curious. - from http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post11159553
    Polycarpe: For the shadow faction, we have found a way to do it, not using the shadow faction itself but instead using an emergent faction combined with various scripts. - from http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post11160629
    Of course I'm not sure what the answer exactly means, and the WotW team will want to keep some secrets (to non-fellow-modders / mere fans), but maybe they've found some interesting solution they'd perhaps share with you (the EBII devs)? It sounds like they'll be able to use only one faction slot, to create a rebel/shadow faction for all initial factions. In EBII terms that could mean to sacrifice only 1 slot (having then a 'mere' 29 initial/playable factions instead of 30), but to gain a rebel/shadow faction for each of the remaining 29 initial/playable factions chosen by the player.

    I only wanted to mention that, as it might be interesting to look into that idea or feature and perhaps contact the WotW team. Btw, their idea of a good M2 mod is quite similar to that of EBII.. complex economy/government, AOR... and detailed research.
    Last edited by Casual Tactician; April 19, 2012 at 03:49 PM.

  5. #5
    Senshi
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    It sounds like they are using a normal faction to represent all rebel groups, its a good idea but not one we would go with. Modding the slave faction ai is probably what we will do.


  6. #6
    Casual Tactician's Avatar Kihei
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    Is there any more news on what you'll be able to make the slave faction do? IIRC more aggresive behaviour was one aim.

  7. #7
    Ichon's Avatar Jū kihei
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    One problem I think Polycarpe ran into was that using emergent faction means there is only 1 shadow faction active at a time- so if Seluicids are having problems then Romans probably won't. Unless they found a way around that- I was looking over their dev forums regularly for awhile but didn't have enough time to keep up.

  8. #8
    Senshi
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    Default Re: Suggestion for a Government Transition implementation

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Tactician View Post
    Is there any more news on what you'll be able to make the slave faction do? IIRC more aggresive behaviour was one aim.
    CAI is quite customisable, we could for example make the slave faction act almost like a normal faction (except for diplomacy options I think).


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