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Thread: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

  1. #1
    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    So its war then...

    Who will win

    http://rt.com/news/south-sudan-war-oil-842/

    The president of South Sudan says recent attacks by rival Sudan amount to a declaration of war on his country. Khartoum and Juba, which became independent last year, remain embroiled in a conflict over sharing oil profits and establishing frontiers.
    Earlier on Tuesday the official spokesman for the South's army Philip Aguer also announced that Sudan has effectively declared war


    Auger’s statement came after suspected bombing of his country’s territory by the North
    Southern authorities and witnesses say Khartoum’s planes bombed the city of Bentiu and nearby oil fields on Tuesday.
    The North denounced the claims, saying this could be a provocation by Juba.

    Sudan and South Sudan are engaged in a new wave of hostilities at the moment over oil fields.

    The violence reignited last week, after the South invaded the disputed Heglig oil field in the border region.
    The Heglig is vital to Sudan’s economy as it accounted for half the 115,000 barrels per day output that remained in its control when South Sudan seceded in July and Khartoum lost 75 per cent of the country’s oil production.
    In its turn, the landlocked South lost its 350,000 barrels per day output after failing to agree on how much it should pay to export via Sudan’s pipelines, a Red Sea port and other facilities.
    Fighting over oil transit payments and disputed territory has already withered the combined crude output of both countries, which are highly dependent on oil.

    Any protracted fighting would severely damage their economies and may disrupt the surrounding region.
    Last edited by Krieglord; April 24, 2012 at 05:56 AM.



  2. #2
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: So Its War Then... Sudan VS S.Sudan

    Its all about the Oil... a vital resource to both nations, the oil is what will feed their people. Obviously I just wasted my time pointing that out.

  3. #3
    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: So Its War Then... Sudan VS S.Sudan

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Its all about the Oil... a vital resource to both nations, the oil is what will feed their people. Obviously I just wasted my time pointing that out.

    Yes indeed

    South Sudan is relatively new nation do they have the military capability to win in a war?



  4. #4

    Default Re: So Its War Then... Sudan VS S.Sudan

    Bit of a sensationalist title. This sort of thing has been going on non-stop for years.

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    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: So Its War Then... Sudan VS S.Sudan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Bit of a sensationalist title. This sort of thing has been going on non-stop for years.
    I changed it just for you



  6. #6
    Jom's Avatar A Place of Greater Safety
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreiglord View Post
    Who will win
    Nobody.

    The 22-year civil war was one of the most miserable conflicts, with child soldiers being used extensively on both sides, and over a million dying due to starvation.

    There hasn't even been a formal declaration of war - this is just the South Sudanese president using hyperbole.

    "For what it’s worth: it’s never too late to be whoever you want to be. I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you find that you’re not, I hope you have the strength to start all over again."

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    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom View Post
    Nobody.

    The 22-year civil war was one of the most miserable conflicts, with child soldiers being used extensively on both sides, and over a million dying due to starvation.

    There hasn't even been a formal declaration of war - this is just the South Sudanese president using hyperbole.

    It may take a million deaths and another 22 years but eventually their will have to be a victor

    And yes very true



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    Princess Cadance's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreiglord View Post
    Who will win
    No one. No one will win. This will toss South Sudan into the trash pile they've been trying to take themselves out off. Sudan knows that the South has the oil,which due to there mismanagement is the basis of there entire economy. Without war,without oil they are screwed and will have to face the people's wrath. It then goes to two choices. Military junta or revolution. And the Union will simply watch.
    "Sing to the LORD a new song;sing to the LORD, all the earth."-Psalm 96:1
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    Krieglord's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Sudan oil-war spiral could split world powers



    http://rt.com/news/sudan-south-sudan-war-338/

    Sudan's president has threatened to topple the government to his south to “liberate” the South Sudanese. As a bloody battle over a disputed oil field heads towards full-scale war, it threatens to provoke conflict between the US and Russia-China.
    Wednesday, Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir accused authorities in the Southern capital, Juba, of trying to topple his government and vowed to retaliate.
    “This situation makes it imperative for Sudan to confront the challenge of the State of South Sudan to topple the government in Khartoum by working to liberate the Southern nationals,” al-Bashir said.
    South Sudan broke away from its northern neighbor last July after decades of on-off civil war. But the two never agreed on how to share the oil wealth found in the region between the countries, and the border was never fully demarcated.
    The fighting is taking place along the shared border around the oil town of Heglig, which South Sudanese troops captured last week.
    The northern state’s parliament was quick to brand its southern neighbor an “enemy” and called for the swift recapture of the region.
    The Heglig field is vital to Sudan’s economy as it accounted for half the 115,000 barrels per day output that remained in its control when South Sudan seceded in July and Khartoum lost 75 per cent of the country’s oil production.
    In its turn, the landlocked South lost its 350,000 barrels per day output after failing to agree on how much it should pay to export via Sudan’s pipelines, a Red Sea port and other facilities.
    Fighting over oil transit payments and disputed territory has already withered the combined crude output of both countries, which are highly dependent on oil. Any protracted fighting would severely damage their economies and may disrupt the surrounding region.
    Fueling an arms race

    The international community is calling to stop the bloodshed, but the two sides seem determined to resolve the issue by force.
    Meanwhile, their “border war” threatens to provoke a conflict among the permanent members of UN Security Council. South Sudan is an ally of the US, while Khartoum has close ties with Russia and China.
    “If the conflict escalates, we are likely to see a stalemate at the UNSC with China and Russia opposing any proposals that may be politically costly to Sudan,” political author and columnist Reason Wafawarova told RT. “The US, with its allies France and the UK, is likely to push for proposals politically favorable to South Sudan, while opposing any proposals they may see as benefiting Sudan.”
    Wafawarova says Sudan is seen as militarily superior to its southern neighbor. The US is unlikely to allow Juba’s capitulation, increasing its military support.
    Some reports allege that the West is already providing arms to South Sudan through its Middle Eastern partners. For instance, Sudan’s Al-Intibaha newspaper writes that Israel might be supplying weapons to Juba.
    South talking tough too

    Another indicator that Juba has some serious allies in the West is the tough stance of South Sudan’s president, Salva Kiir.
    When the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon called him and asked to stop the attack on Heglig, he received a surprisingly defiant answer: “I am not a slave to fulfill your orders!”
    Experts say the behavior of President Kiir may be explained by the fact that he was confident of the unshakable support of the United States. Previously the US helped the southerners in their fight against the “dictatorial regime in Khartoum.”
    The reason, Wafawarova says, is that it is no secret the United States militarily supported South Sudan in its campaign for secession from the North.
    The US reportedly provided $100 million-a-year in military assistance to the SPLA. The information about the nature of this assistance has been scarce, but in December 2009 WikiLeaks released a diplomatic cable that refers to a US “training program for the SPLA, including combat arms soldier training.”
    On the other side are Russia and China, who have traditionally supported close ties with Khartoum, selling weapons to Sudan right up to the 2005 UN arms embargo on the Sudanese government because of the war in Darfur.
    However, in 2008 a BBC news report claimed to have found evidence of China-Sudan trade in violation of the embargo.
    Currently, China is Sudan’s largest trading partner, importing oil and exporting low-cost goods.
    Wafawarova believes that the permanent USNC council members’ standoff in the region may lead to an arms race between the two Sudans. US will be “expanding the military strength of South Sudan, while China and Russia will keep arming Khartoum,” he said.
    There are also persistent rumors that the US plans to set up a military base in South Sudan – the largest in Africa.
    “The US has failed to set up its AFRICOM base in Ghana, Mozambique, Uganda, Kenya and other proposed countries in the past,” says Wafawarova. “It would not be surprising if the US is trying to capitalize on the vulnerability of South Sudan in its efforts to establish the AFRICOM base somewhere in sub-Saharan Africa.”
    However, Wafawarova stressed that any efforts to set up AFRICOM in South Sudan are likely to face stiff opposition from Russia and China, as well as from the African Union and most African countries at individual levels.
    Shifting the blame

    While all involved in the conflict are pursuing their own interests, there always has to be someone to blame. It seems that Russia and China might again become the punching bag of the West for this purpose.
    One of the indicators that that this might be the case is Amnesty International’s shift of attitude towards the parties involved. In July 2011, the organization accused China, Russia, and the USA of fueling conflict in the region.
    The organization condemned the countries “for providing weapons or military training to the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) and the Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA), the official army of South Sudan.”
    However, in February 2012, only China and Russia were accused of supplying arms to the volatile region, with no traces of US involvement whatsoever.
    “China, Russia, and Belarus continue to supply weapons and munitions to Sudan despite compelling evidence that the arms will be used against civilians in Darfur,” the new Amnesty International statement reads.
    Tuesday, Security Council members promised to discuss the crisis urgently, including the possibility of sanctions.
    “Calls from the UNSC for a ceasefire are hypocritical and of no strength for as long as China, the US and Russia are pursuing their own political and economic interests in Sudan,” believes Reason Wafawarova. “And the fact that Heglig is, in reality, a conflict over oil makes the prospect of an amicable solution bleak.”



  10. #10

    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Looks like just a continuation of the civil war, except now it can be just called a war. Fighting over oil never surprises me. I hope there's some intensified peacekeeping in the region to prevent this from going out of hand.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    The Khartoum's regim is one of ugliests in world, they're genocidars , thats should be enough to desengage Russia and China to help Bechir and its legcutters. Its mostly like when US supported Pinochet and such guys. Or Mitterand with Hutu Power/Interahamwe.
    I don't know if its a good idea to send G.I and french Marines there...thats would more make the game of muslim fundamentalists.

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    The Noble Lord's Avatar Holy Arab Nation
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    There is no victor here, it would be a stalemate and the losses would mount on both sides. I just hope it does not degenerate into one of those pointless African conflicts which would go on for years!
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  13. #13
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreiglord View Post
    It may take a million deaths and another 22 years but eventually their will have to be a victor

    And yes very true
    When one side steps back and seeks peace then there will be peace. But if they continue to fight and each new generation is brought up on war and families lose someone to the conflict then animosity will grow and conflict is likely to continue, but of course eventually it will stop.

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    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Silly Khartoum that has no patience; South Sudan already is on the path of self-destruction so why bother to make yourself look ugly now. Just wait for a decade and South Sudanese would welcome Khartoum like a liberator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  15. #15

    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    I don't see any reason to defend the integrity of an artificial formation like the former Sudan, at least not its present regim, if Southerners are fine between them, lets them a chance.
    I doubt Bechir will give his "forgiveness". He have proved he don't mind with civil lifes.
    Also you completly deny the right for animists and christians to live in their region according their proper laws.

    "Just wait for a decade and South Sudanese would welcome Khartoum like a liberator."
    With last events, its likely not possible. Would you be friend with the guy who killed your parents? Its almost what you've said saying Southerners would be welcoming in the future with northern army.
    So, you silly

  16. #16
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo Colonna View Post
    With last events, its likely not possible. Would you be friend with the guy who killed your parents? Its almost what you've said saying Southerners would be welcoming in the future with northern army.
    So, you silly
    ? You do realize that the first international news we have about South Sudan after last summer was two towns fought a cattle war for three months, caused a town got burned down, 500 deaths, 2000 children got abdicated and thousands got displaced?

    South Sudan is a mess itself even without Khartoum. Khartoum should just wait for a decade, allow those silly South Sudanese bleed themselves white before they begging Khartoum come back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  17. #17

    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    South Sudan was hardly unified when they beat back the Sudanese in forty years of warfare, though.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    From a french site
    http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/afrique/soudan.htm

    "Sudan became an independent state on 1 January 1956. The elite northerner, more numerous and better trained, seized the administrative machinery of the country and imposed its political options in the name of "national unity" that had never existed. Under the unitary ideology, a single national language seemed so necessary. The North advocated integration through Arabization and Islamization of the entire Sudanese society, but the South called the cultural and religious pluralism of Sudan (including the abolition of the Sharia), while promoting a federal system in a State secular."

    Probably its very partial and simplistic, in waiting, christians and animists seems more like victims in the story.
    This site mentioned a strong immigration of christians from North to South. We can guess they prefered the exile more than Sharia.
    So, at the end, its well Bechir and his predecessors who violated the elementar Southern Regional Self Government Act thousand of times.
    And also the Westerners(oil) have shown by several occasions they prefered a Federal State with South.

    I was meaning the 2008's events by "last events":
    "According to the French Foreign Ministry, probably more than 300,000 dead (July 2008)"
    Its enough to not trust Bechir if he's speaking of peace, anyway he don't want peace.

  19. #19
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom View Post
    Nobody.

    The 22-year civil war was one of the most miserable conflicts, with child soldiers being used extensively on both sides, and over a million dying due to starvation.

    There hasn't even been a formal declaration of war - this is just the South Sudanese president using hyperbole.
    Aye, you speak truly Ser Jom, but when you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die.




  20. #20
    Prosaic Visitant's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Sudan declared war on our country - South Sudan president

    Everyone's third most favourite Arab tyrant should go and capture the Statue of Zeus and Pyramids of Giza wonders to imporve loyalty. That and do a few exterminations here and there. I hear Arab leaders are good at that.

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