Page 7 of 377 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516173257107 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 7533

Thread: Barry's Bar

  1. #121
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    13,836

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    No, you had to adhere to Morality or else you were a criminal or a hippie.

  2. #122
    Dave Strider's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    17,465

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    No, you had to adhere to Morality or else you were a criminal or a hippie.
    Morality?

    Getting forcibly married at age 14 was Moral?
    Forcing a woman to stay home and be subservient was Moral?
    Telling children that they didn't have to worry about their future, because they'd all be dead, was Moral?
    when the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run,
    there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun,
    yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
    but the union makes us strong.

  3. #123
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    13,836

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    What history book have you been reading? None of those things happened in the '50s, and very rarely they happened in the '20s.

  4. #124
    Kip's Avatar Idea missing.
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    8,422

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    ah, the bar at its best: an argument over whose make-believe is the better make-believe

    see, there's no reason to be upset that the old bar is gone, its business as usual!

  5. #125
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    28,043

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    This place is way more serious than he CT art times. I could hardly interject a throwaway one liner.

  6. #126
    Dave Strider's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    17,465

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    What history book have you been reading? None of those things happened in the '50s, and very rarely they happened in the '20s.
    Lol, what book have YOU been reading? My history teacher's mother was a schoolgirl in the mid 50s. She was taught to be serving and nurturing to her husband. Asking how his day was, having a hot dinner ready, getting him beers, not bothering him with her problems until he had time to hear, etc.

    The part about not worrying about her future was something that happened to her first-hand. She was talking to her friends about what she would be when she was an adult, and the teacher looked at her and said, nonchalantly and without a second thought, "Oh, don't worry about that. You'll all be dead."


    As for the marriages...




    And this is average. There were, quite often, girls married as young as 14.

    And marriage was expected to last your entire life back then, even if you didn't want it to. 97% of couples were married.
    when the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run,
    there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun,
    yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
    but the union makes us strong.

  7. #127
    Dan the Man's Avatar S A M U R A I F O O L
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Posts
    11,557

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Six pages into our shiny new thread and already the idiocy has begun. This is why we can't have nice things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chernov View Post
    - Bourbon France
    - Austrian Empire
    - Tsarist Russia
    - Nationalist China

    Need I go on?
    Why Bourbons and Austrians? Why not all of Europe and, hell, all of the world in those days?
    Tsarist Russia had its up and down times throughout its history.
    For both of the above it should be noted that the definition of conservatism was much different in those days. Therefore, it's neither wise nor accurate to compare things like the Ancien Régime to modern conservatism, which, at least in the US, is very much based on the classical liberal principles that overthrew people like the Bourbons. Today, any supporter of the Bourbons, Habsburgs, or Romanovs would automatically be labeled a reactionary in all truly conservative circles.
    Nationalist China was not conservative just because it was opposed to communism. Don't automatically confuse anti-communism with whatever definition of conservatism you subscribe to.
    All the same, I'm not denying that bad things happened in all of these countries and all of these time periods. The point was to remind you that your record is anything but clean.
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chernov View Post
    Except the '20s and '50s are definitely not happy days, lol.
    Didn't we warn you about "lol" after your posts being condescending?
    Proudly under the patronage of The Holy Pilgrim, the holiest of pilgrims.


  8. #128
    Kip's Avatar Idea missing.
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    8,422

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Fred, first allow me to say: your anecdotal evidence concerning one housewife from the 1950s makes you more qualified than any of us in this conversation. ()

    Second: causation vs. correlation my friend. As those median marriage ages are going upwards, so is life expectancy. There's no longer as much pressure to get married in your teens and twenties because you're not going to die in your teens and your twenties

  9. #129
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    13,836

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chernov View Post
    Lol, what book have YOU been reading? My history teacher's mother was a schoolgirl in the mid 50s. She was taught to be serving and nurturing to her husband. Asking how his day was, having a hot dinner ready, getting him beers, not bothering him with her problems until he had time to hear, etc.
    But that's what any good wife does! How is that a bad thing?

    The part about not worrying about her future was something that happened to her first-hand. She was talking to her friends about what she would be when she was an adult, and the teacher looked at her and said, nonchalantly and without a second thought, "Oh, don't worry about that. You'll all be dead."
    Anecdotal evidence, and some that you can't prove anyway. I think this is bull, myself.
    As for the marriages...




    And this is average. There were, quite often, girls married as young as 14.
    But that claim is NOT backed by facts, and today girls marry as young as 16 by choice because they couldn't keep their pants on. What I see is that either men were more chivalrous or girls were smarter, and therefore married later than they do today. What's the difference, besides that women married for better reasons?

    And marriage was expected to last your entire life back then
    As it's supposed to...

    97% of couples were married.
    Again, EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD BE!

  10. #130
    Dave Strider's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    17,465

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
    Why Bourbons and Austrians? Why not all of Europe and, hell, all of the world in those days?
    They came to mind.

    Tsarist Russia had its up and down times throughout its history.
    But it was always an Absolute Monarchy.

    For both of the above it should be noted that the definition of conservatism was much different in those days. Therefore, it's neither wise nor accurate to compare things like the Ancien Régime to modern conservatism, which, at least in the US, is very much based on the classical liberal principles that overthrew people like the Bourbons. Today, any supporter of the Bourbons, Habsburgs, or Romanovs would automatically be labeled a reactionary in all truly conservative circles.
    Reactionary is one of the degrees of Conservatism.

    Nationalist China was not conservative just because it was opposed to communism. Don't automatically confuse anti-communism with whatever definition of conservatism you subscribe to.
    All the same, I'm not denying that bad things happened in all of these countries and all of these time periods. The point was to remind you that your record is anything but clean.
    Communism is far-left. Opponents of the far-left tend to be far-right.

    Didn't we warn you about "lol" after your posts being condescending?
    Didn't I warn you I have a bad memory?
    when the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run,
    there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun,
    yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
    but the union makes us strong.

  11. #131
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Her Majesty's Extraterrestrial Possessions
    Posts
    9,638

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    I must say the 'It was better in the old days!' argument is the worst one there is. Better for you or one or two people maybe, but worse for the great majority, and certainly worse for Women or Non-WASPs.

  12. #132
    Dave Strider's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    17,465

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    But that's what any good wife does! How is that a bad thing?
    Because it's inconsiderate of her feelings and is an open door for a guy to be a douche?


    Anecdotal evidence, and some that you can't prove anyway. I think this is bull, myself.
    Yes, because first-hand accounts aren't proof.

    But that claim is NOT backed by facts, and today girls marry as young as 16 by choice because they couldn't keep their pants on. What I see is that either men were more chivalrous or girls were smarter, and therefore married later than they do today. What's the difference, besides that women married for better reasons?
    Uh...because there's very little love in saying "Here, marry this man or you'll be a social outcast, you'll never have a job, and nobody will ever talk to you."


    As it's supposed to...
    Supposedly.

    Again, EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD BE!
    Supposedly.
    when the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run,
    there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun,
    yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
    but the union makes us strong.

  13. #133
    Dan the Man's Avatar S A M U R A I F O O L
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Posts
    11,557

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdiad View Post
    This place is way more serious than he CT art times. I could hardly interject a throwaway one liner.
    Run while you still can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chernov View Post
    But it was always an Absolute Monarchy.
    Okay, and?
    Reactionary is one of the degrees of Conservatism.
    No? Reactionism in its traditional sense is a step on the left-right compass that could probably be placed somewhere between Conservatism and the most extreme far-right (as in, Fascism). It's not Conservatism. In fact, the word "reactionary" is so delightfully bendable that it can also mean any reversion to an old order. A Russian advocating the return of the USSR could technically be considered a reactionary just because he/she would want to return to a previous way of doing things.
    Communism is far-left. Opponents of the far-left tend to be far-right.
    Stereotype. I know plenty of liberals who are also anti-communists. You don't have to be a right-winger to oppose your broken system.
    Didn't I warn you I have a bad memory?
    Of common courtesy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chernov View Post
    As for the marriages...
    For the love of God, not this argument again! All the same, I find it funny that one of the lowest correlations for marriage age is around the hippie era.
    And this is average. There were, quite often, girls married as young as 14.
    Uhh...no. Not since the very earliest years of the 19th century would that be the case, probably not even then in fact. People would still be in school at age 14 in the 1920's-1950's since the public school system was up-and-running by that time. The world did not work this way.

    By the way, I don't know why either of you are arguing the 20's as a time of conservatism. If anything, the years after World War I were some of the most liberal years in human history, up until the 1960's of course.. Read up on the "Lost Generation," the Roaring Twenties, and all that.

    EDIT: By the way, just because the Roaring Twenties were a time of victory for economic conservatism does not mean that they were a time of victory for moral conservatism. Aside from Prohibition (which very few people followed anyway) it was a time of very lax moral restrictions. Again, "Lost Generation."
    Yes, because first-hand accounts aren't proof.
    Sorry, but they aren't. I argue this for the sake of semantics though, since it's obviously true that feminism wasn't in its heyday in the 50's. All you have to do is watch an episode of I Love Lucy to figure that out. Whether or not there is logic behind the change from 50's status is a debate that I will not engage in.
    Uh...because there's very little love in saying "Here, marry this man or you'll be a social outcast, you'll never have a job, and nobody will ever talk to you."
    When did this become Romeo and Juliet?
    Proudly under the patronage of The Holy Pilgrim, the holiest of pilgrims.


  14. #134
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    13,836

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Watercress View Post
    I must say the 'It was better in the old days!' argument is the worst one there is. Better for you or one or two people maybe, but worse for the great majority, and certainly worse for Women or Non-WASPs.
    But what if it was? And it was NOT worse for women... in the '50s, girls didn't get pregnant at sixteen, rape was rare, and instead of dressing like whores and being treated like such women could be cherished as they deserve to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade Chernov View Post
    Because it's inconsiderate of her feelings and is an open door for a guy to be a douche?
    Not really... The woman's job is to take care of the home, the man's is to provide for the woman. If that's what happens, no conflict ensues.
    Yes, because first-hand accounts aren't proof.
    Not when not backed up by proof.

    Uh...because there's very little love in saying "Here, marry this man or you'll be a social outcast, you'll never have a job, and nobody will ever talk to you."
    Again, in the '50s women chose who they married... No excuse.
    Supposedly.
    Stupid argument.

    Supposedly.
    Ditto.

  15. #135
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Her Majesty's Extraterrestrial Possessions
    Posts
    9,638

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    It's not 'What If', It was bloody worse. And there's a difference between 'Cherishing' women and keeping them bound in a entirely lower social status. Why can't they do the same stuff as men? There's certainly no physical or mental limitation.

    "Only Connect!...Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer."

  16. #136
    Dan the Man's Avatar S A M U R A I F O O L
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Posts
    11,557

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Watercress View Post
    It's not 'What If', It was bloody worse. And there's a difference between 'Cherishing' women and keeping them bound in a entirely lower social status. Why can't they do the same stuff as men? There's certainly no physical or mental limitation.
    Oh, looks like I'm getting into it.
    Though, surprisingly, I will throw my lot in with Fred and MMM on this one. I'm no feminist, but there's really no reason to make women constantly subservient towards men. Judging by your previous discussions of the topic, I know what you're thinking Aggy: It may say "Wives, submit to your husbands" (paraphrased - I'm not sure the exact phrasing) in the Bible, but it also says "Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her." The relationship between husband and wife is one of mutual reliance between the partners, not a reason for the wife to constantly sweep under her husband's feet.
    Proudly under the patronage of The Holy Pilgrim, the holiest of pilgrims.


  17. #137
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    28,043

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Yes but who will make the sandwiches.

  18. #138
    Dan the Man's Avatar S A M U R A I F O O L
    Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Posts
    11,557

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdiad View Post
    Yes but who will make the sandwiches.
    Proudly under the patronage of The Holy Pilgrim, the holiest of pilgrims.


  19. #139
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Her Majesty's Extraterrestrial Possessions
    Posts
    9,638

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    The Kids

    "Only Connect!...Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer."

  20. #140
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    28,043

    Default Re: Barry's Bar

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
    You don't like sandwiches?
    Quote Originally Posted by Watercress View Post
    The Kids
    No thanks, I want quality.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •