Barry's Bar

[jacb547]

Yes indeedy - the base concept & some parts are definitely inspired by that mod, especially the Great Lakes Viking thing. Couldn't pass up on something that cool

Go Vikings?

[Barry Goldwater]

Thanks for the comments guys! And don't worry Dan/Kip, you guys may well get a chance to determine who rules the Toledo Strip for all time no matter whether we go for a faction or character-based format So I wasn't able to hop on TWC much yesterday, but tonight's a different story. Here's the next round of factions, in Canada:

Magenta (Ontario)

The Viceroyalty of Ontario (officially all of Canada) is the oldest organized society in North America, having emerged from the shattered remnants of the Canadian federal government in the decades after WWIII. For centuries they were led by 'Viceroys' elected by the Canadian peerage, a merger of the old positions of Governor-General and Prime Minister who would always swear to govern Canada not as its sovereign monarch, but merely a loyal servant of the British monarch (whoever that might be at the time, since for most of its history Ontarians didn't even know if Britain had survived the bombs) and a first-among-equals within the nobility. In 2500, the first European exploration ship docked in Montreal, and as the Quebecois were in a rare state of peace with Ontario at the time they allowed news of the arrival to filter back to Toronto. From there, then-Viceroy James Borden learned that Great Britain had indeed survived the Third World War and happily asked the British ambassador to relay his oath of allegiance back to King Arthur II Windsor. Though neither Borden nor his successor, current Viceroy Philip Meighen, have been able to offer their allegiance to the British monarch in person so far, nor has Britain been able to send any meaningful aid to the Ontarians, just the restoration of contact between the motherland and her dominion was sufficient to restore Ontarian morale after a number of defeats at the hands of the Quebecois and Lakesmen and to get them to believe that they can indeed reunite Canada for the House of Windsor as the first Viceroys hoped.

Blue (Quebec)

The Kingdom of Quebec was founded when Saguenay-based warlord Jacques Vanier seized then-ruined Quebec City in 2133, and can be said to play a similar role to the Texan Holy Kingdom to the south as Canada's premier authoritarian & militaristic powerhouse with a sharp rivalry with another regional power (in their case, the Ontarians). The Vanier Kings and Queens officially continued to associate themselves with Catholicism, but in practice (and due to a total lack of contact with the Popes in Rome for the past ~500 years) have established a sort of royal cult around themselves that only borrows Catholic imagery, making themselves out to be sacred kings anointed directly by God and even making a point out of crowning themselves instead of having a priest do it upon their ascension. However, in 2500 the Quebecois' world was turned upside down when a fleet of European merchants and dignitaries docked in Montreal for the first time in centuries - including a Papal Legate who sternly disapproved of the borderline heretical Vanier 'sacred kingship'. Now a struggle is steadily brewing between King Louis V Vanier, who insists that he is still a Catholic (and officially is one) but refuses to abandon the more heterodox practices of the Quebecois kingship and is backed by the upper nobility, and his cousin Jean Vaquer, the powerful Duc de Montreal and a descendant of Jacques I's second son Charles, who is working to undermine the Vaniers with the unofficial backing of the lesser seigneurs and orthodox Catholics who reject the 'royal cult' in its entirety; their factions are respectively nicknamed the 'Gold Lilies' and the 'White Lilies' after their houses' heraldry.

Purple (Maritimes)

The United Kingdom of the Maritimes is one of the younger factions of the Eastern Seaboard, having only been forcibly united by the Sinclairs of Nova Scotia in the early 2400s. Though it has always been in a position to seriously contest dominance of the Eastern Seaboard's trade lanes and fishing areas, the Maritimers have been unable to make good on their potential so far due to internal instability, with many of the subjugated lords and petty kings still resentful of their defeat at the Sinclairs' hands and chomping at the bit for any opportunity to secede. Making things worse, since the arrival of European dignitaries at the start of the 26th century Catholicism has steadily been making inroads into the Maritimes at the expense of the state's Nova Scotian Church, which is widely seen as a corrupt money-sucking tool of the Sinclair kings and queens (who happen to be its official heads). Now, Queen Joan Sinclair not only has to deal with resurgent secessionist feelings in Newfoundland and New Brunswick but also the rise of one Anne Shirley, a young Catholic evangelist of peasant origin who is said to perform miracles and is attracting increasing support among the people of Nova Scotia & Prince Edward Island with her fiery speeches (and resources from the Catholic Church). If Joan doesn't play her cards carefully, she could see everything her ancestors worked for going up in the flames of a combined separatist and religious rebellion very soon...

Gold (Manitoba/Saskatchewan)

The Manitoban Empire was once the premier power of the Canadian West, but no longer. Though it ruled everything from the British Columbian coast to the edges of the Canadian Shield in northern Ontario at its apogee in 2360, a string of inept rulers, civil wars and well-timed rebellions has by now reduced them to slivers of central-western Manitoba and eastern Saskatchewan. Its troubles began with the successful rebellion of the Albertan Cossacks and the foundation of the Great Plains Sich in 2377, followed by the loss of its British Columbian exclave to Alaskan and Californian attacks as well as Ontarian counteroffensives in the east starting in the 2390s. In 2402, the Douglas dynasty which founded the empire and led it for most of its history came to an end when Emperor John II slew the rebel Duke Owen Forke in battle to avenge his murdered family, only to expire of his wounds soon after; without any strong leaders, the Empire collapsed into anarchy for several decades while Albertans from the west, Eskimos to the north and Granger warlords south of the border further nibbled at its borders. Although what was left of the imperial core region was definitively reunited by Alexander Crerar of Marquette in 2470, instability continued to wrack the Empire as nobles prioritized their intrigues for the throne & personal wealth over the well-being of the whole empire, and to date no man has been able to establish a dynasty that sat for more than two generations on Manitoba's blood-soaked throne. The latest nobleman to secure the crown, Emperor John III Dhaliwal (who murdered his predecessor, Gregory IV Beddome, for the job two years ago), is still struggling to keep his vassals under control: the Pallisters of Saskatchewan are inviting the Sich to 'liberate' them from his rule, the Marstons to the south are doing the same with the Granger Emperors, and his own brother is sharpening his knife at this very moment - so to put it mildly, he may not be able to worry about restoring Manitoba's imperial glory for some time yet.

Aqua (Alberta, parts of BC)

The Great Plains Sich is a semi-democratic federation that grew out of a massive peasant rebellion against Emperor Henry Douglas of Manitoba in 2370s Alberta, where only soldiers and civil servants have the right to vote and where the economy is doubly reliant on decentralized agriculture (the great noble estates of the past having been seized and redistributed among individual families long ago) and its slowly-rebuilding oil industry. Befitting its Albertan core's dominant population of Ukrainian-Canadians and the role that its elite Albertan Cossacks played in liberating the former Canadian province from Manitoban rule, the Sich is officially led by a supreme Hetman who also happens to always be the personal commander of the Albertan Cossacks, though true legislative power lies in its Sich Rada (an upper house composed of Otamans elected by the various regional Cossack communities) and the Greater Rada (a lower house composed of representatives elected by non-Cossack soldiers), who together form the Central Rada of the Sich. Needless to say however, the Sich's restricted franchise and the tendency of the Cossacks to ride roughshod over non-Cossacks who get in their way has produced a steady wave of popular discontent, further aided by lesser Cossack communities that feel oppressed by their more powerful cousins. Today, sitting Hetman Alexander Stelmach must not only watch for danger from the Sich's ancestral enemies in the Alaskan Tsardom and the Grangers to the south, but also a brewing 'Second Albertan Revolution' likely to be led by his rival Ataman Wayne Lyshchyn, who aims to crack Cossack dominance over the state and inaugurate true democracy on the western plains.

Cyan

The Arctic regions of Canada were heavily depopulated in the Russian invasion and then again by the bombs at the climax of the Third World War, in no small part due to the surprisingly large number of Canadian military facilities formerly present there, yet through it all the local Inuits were able to survive. Though they initially preferred to live in their own tribes and not-infrequently warred with each other, repeated Manitoban and Quebecois incursions forced the chiefs to see the necessity of presenting a united front against non-Native powers lest they be divided and subdued once more like their ancestors. The warlord Thomas Okalik was the first to unite his people under the banner of the Inuit Confederacy with blood, gold and promises, and since then the Inuit elders have not only steadily consolidated their rule over Arctic Canada and defended their traditions & sovereignty from those who would make them bend their knees but also began to look to liberate their cousins to the west, which necessitates conflict with the Russian Tsar in Anchorage - not an easy opponent, to be sure. In preparation for their ultimate goal of uniting the continent's remaining First Peoples against all who would crush them and relegate their traditions to the dustbin of history, reigning Chief of Chiefs Lavinia Aupaluktuq has renamed her nation the 'Eskimo Confederacy' with the full backing of the Circle of Elders and is gearing her people up for war.

Again, your thoughts would be most appreciated.

[Xion]

The Maritimes scenario seems to be a reversed Wars of Religion(with the Protestants in power) combined with a Joan of Arc leading/inspiring the Catholics. Which combined with Quebec being the Texas of Canada, could add another front to the war for the Sinclairs...provided their own potential War of the Roses doesn't hamstring any possible intervention/aid attempts. Quite interesting.

So that's what Manitoba was...I was completely off in my guess, then. Their situation, to me, sounds like the Deluge a bit, being surrounded by enemies and having internal turmoil as well.

[jacb547]

Awesome Barry! Just a question, how populated is the world in the game? Like extremely small post-apocalyptic , Fallout sized, around European Middle Ages or has it already reached pre WWIII numbers?

[Dirty Chai]

I'm guessing post-Roman Viking Age populations, proportionate to the population of Europe after the Plague of Justinian.
Depends on the region, too, I bet.

The Northern West Coast of USA is more likely to be able to support large population than the southern parts of California (south of Fresno, it gets very arid and requires irrigation).
^That should also be an important part of politics too.

All of California's water reserves are in the northern part by Oregon, and in the Sierra Nevada mountains, but mostly in the former.
During the current drought, they're all going dry because the sourthern parts of the State wont stop irrigating desert for their fruit farms. (gross exaggeration, I know; It has more to do with weather patterns)

[Pericles of Athens]

How connected is the Old World to the New exactly, will we see any major intervention from them or from South America?

Will the Eskimo nation have dog powered sleds?

Also, what's the state of the world? Fallout like, as far as population and level of devastation or what?

[Barry Goldwater]

Awesome Barry! Just a question, how populated is the world in the game? Like extremely small post-apocalyptic , Fallout sized, around European Middle Ages or has it already reached pre WWIII numbers?

How connected is the Old World to the New exactly, will we see any major intervention from them or from South America?

Will the Eskimo nation have dog powered sleds?

Also, what's the state of the world? Fallout like, as far as population and level of devastation or what?

I'm guessing post-Roman Viking Age populations, proportionate to the population of Europe after the Plague of Justinian.
Depends on the region, too, I bet.

The Northern West Coast of USA is more likely to be able to support large population than the southern parts of California (south of Fresno, it gets very arid and requires irrigation).
^That should also be an important part of politics too.

All of California's water reserves are in the northern part by Oregon, and in the Sierra Nevada mountains, but mostly in the former.
During the current drought, they're all going dry because the sourthern parts of the State wont stop irrigating desert for their fruit farms. (gross exaggeration, I know; It has more to do with weather patterns)

^BF is spot on, the post-apoc world is in a position similar to Europe between the death of Charlemagne & the Norman Conquest or the First Crusade: the bloody chaos of the first two centuries immediately following WW3 has for the most part given way to actual states, some of which are in a better position than others to realize their desired future across the entire continent, and populations are steadily regrowing; the capitals and major cities of the bigger factions (FSA, Confeds, Texas, the Californias for example) can actually be called cities once more now. I suppose a more appropriate comparison, not just socially but technologically too, would be to Fallout New Vegas + a few extra decades of rebuilding, not the first & third Fallouts. Contact with the rest of the world has only just begun (it hasn't even been a century since the first European ships in ~500 years arrived on the continent) and so it's understandably still sparse, limited so far to only a few traders & missionaries operating mostly on the East Coast, but at least it's happened and has the potential to grow much stronger over the course of the game. Asian convoys arriving on the West Coast aren't far off either.

As for the rest of the world, Europe and Asia can be said to be in a slightly better shape than that since they can afford to send trans-oceanic expeditions (without any meaningful aid, mind you) to America. I'd say Africa and South America are still in the same boat as North America development-wise.

@BF Oh yes, SoCal is definitely having major water problems. They're in the unfortunate situation of having to import loads of food & water for their cities (which as I said above, are big enough that they can actually be considered cities now) since so much of their land is turning/has become unsuitable for agriculture, while the increasingly few bits that haven't suffered that fate yet are monopolized as resorts or private estates by the aristocracy; funny enough, water merchants are one of like the two blocs that can seriously challenge the power of said traditional nobility (the other being the Army) due to the leverage they have over virtually all South Californians who can't afford their own private supplies of water. This should play nicely into the whole 'corrupt & generally worse-off half of a once-great empire' thing they have going.

@Perry Yes the Eskimos will have dog sleds And an outright European invasion isn't likely, though that's not the only way they can gain power in the New World, and I might also toss in a British attempt at reconquering the former USA later. South America's another story since they're so much closer and will have rebuilt themselves in a way similar to the American states in some areas, but they're more likely to hit Mexico & the Caribbean first before storming into America proper.

[Pericles of Athens]

Will there be any heavily irradiated areas or ruins of old American cities and military facilities like in the Fallout games? And perhaps more importantly will there be raiders, gangs or tribals within the borders of these organized nations like in Fallout New Vegas, or has order been restored to a level above that?

[Barry Goldwater]

Will there be any heavily irradiated areas or ruins of old American cities and military facilities like in the Fallout games? And perhaps more importantly will there be raiders, gangs or tribals within the borders of these organized nations like in Fallout New Vegas, or has order been restored to a level above that?

For the former, definitely. For the latter, some areas will also certainly still be plagued by especially powerful and/or psychotic gangs or still-independent minor tribes (the lands of weaker & less orderly factions, like Manitoba or the Appalachians & Disney cultists for example, will be crawling with such rabble), while others like the FSA will have clamped down nicely on these guys.

[jacb547]

So Barry where you thinking of making this character based or faction based?

[Barry Goldwater]

I'm down for either, it really depends on which you guys think would be a better idea. Though I must admit to favoring a character-based game over a faction-based one.

[Pericles of Athens]

Character based, there's no adventure in a faction based game. And we tend to quickly run out of things to do in faction based games, as long as the moderation can stay active a character based game can run indefinitely.

[Agamemnon]

I love this idea so much. But I won't likely be able to play much if at all until like June.

So I have very good news and some crappy news. To begin with, the crappy news: I no longer have internet access besides my phone, as my uncle has decided that he no longer has to provide internet access for me, being as I am an adult. As such, he has blocked the IP addresses of all of my possessions from our internet, and just changing them isn't really an option, as even if it would work he monitors everything and would notice the bandwidth usage. However, there is some good news: when we actually do have to communicate, my uncle and I hate each other less than before, and I'm going to be moving in two months, so I don't have to deal with it very long.

However, for the great news: I now have a girlfriend. She's awesome, and we're both really hoping this lasts, possibly indefinitely, though it's too early to plan for that. Additionally, she says that she isn't held to Michigan really at all, and is wiling to wait for me while I go to school in Texas.

[Dave Strider]

Congrats Aggy, that's ing awesome! The girlfriend I mean, not the internet loss

May your love be almost as red as the state.

[chesser2538]

That's great man, you deserve it. May your love for her blossom with each passing day.

[Pericles of Athens]

make money, in that order.

[Barry Goldwater]

As the others have said before me, congrats Aggy Glad to hear that things are looking up for you (except the Internet thing, but you won't have to worry about that for too long it seems). And yeah, don't worry about the post-apoc IH, it probably won't start until May or June anyway, at the absolute earliest it could see a late April launch but that's an optimistic guess on my part & the least likely of the launch dates.

Anyway, the post-apoc setting isn't the only option on the table. I'm down with basically whatever you guys want to do really - said post-apoc setting, a post-apoc setting of your own creation, a reboot of the WW2 game or BaW, something else entirely. If you guys want to host something of your own, I'll gladly put aside my own post-apoc game to make room, and if time permits (and whatever you're doing interests me, of course ) I may well join up myself. I'll hold a poll at a later date, probably actually in late April since polls are rather easier to set up than a game.

[Dan the Man]

make money, in that order.

Wub wub make money?

And like I said over FB, I'm very happy for you Aggy!

On my own front, I signed up for okcupid this morning on my friend's recommendation, since he met his new girlfriend through it and things seem to be working out pretty well. I figured I had nothing to lose, but so far most of my matches seem imbalanced in one way or another. I think I may have made a mistake...

[chesser2538]

How about another RB IH. Those always seem to go well.

[Dirty Chai]

You know, I might have an idea for an IH in the future if you're all interested (it's not history though)...

If any of you are familiar with the manga version of Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, you may remember that this fantasy world actually had some rather interesting technology, culture, and warfare, having kingdoms, knights, and airships, and still yet bayonets, trenches, tanks.

Here are some images: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23

Nausicaa's world is post-apocalyptic, where the Earth is physically reduced to mostly desert and an ever-growing, giant toxic jungle.
Civilization is permanently reduced to a pre-industrial form. But this world doesn't drop the guns and post-industrial technology; it simply loses the systems of mass production and industry. So you have traditional agricultural kingdoms and tribal loyalties, but with more advanced weaponry.
The Doroks for example are actually many different tribes who worship a god-emperor, and their military isn't so much what it appears in the images, and is rather similar to the Qing Dynasty military of the 19th century - roving armies of tribal warriors.
There are still things like large cannons and all the technological innovations of the industrialized world, but the method of producing and equipping has changed.
Cannons for example probably aren't created in a military factory somewhere with a streamlined assembly line, but rather each and every one is unique in a hand-crafted way. The Torumekians have a smaller military by contrast, filled with "knights".
The effect is essentially arming pre-industrial societies with industrial technologies.

I guess where I'm going with this is that this could easily work with the style of the rules used in the current WW2 IH. Resources, provinces, regiments, etc.
Except, we have a randomized fantasy map, player-created factions, and somewhat fantastical steampunk elements (airships etc).

Thoughts?

Just putting it out there as a setting, but I'm fairly confident it won't win.