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Thread: Existence of God

  1. #181

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    Unless he was deaf he would have heard it.
    Which do you think would be more believable to someone from outside your religion:
    1. Muhammad heard about scientific discoveries made by the greeks, preserved by the romans, from when he was a merchant.
    2. His god told him.

    Note: I'm not claiming that Mohammad did repeat science he heard from the Greeks, I'm simply stating that to most people from outside your religion that is the more reasonable proposal.
    Both are reasonable. We will probably never know. (unless some dude manages to invent a Time Machine)

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    Both are reasonable. We will probably never know. (unless some dude manages to invent a Time Machine)
    Not to an observer from outside your particular religion, one is based on reason and facts: Mohammad had access to western traders, western traders often had stories to tell about how great their culture is (no people is more guilty of this than the Greeks) and Greek culture developed many of the scientific "revelations" claimed in the Koran. On the other hand the other proposal is a suspension of natural law where information is magically given to a man by some kind of deity.

    To an outsider there is no competition.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  3. #183
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    I find it hard to believe that Supermarine here would be arguing with good faith. He must be a Poe. No one can be that thick.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakkapeliitta View Post
    I find it hard to believe that Supermarine here would be arguing with good faith. He must be a Poe. No one can be that thick.
    Huh? Whats a Poe?

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakkapeliitta View Post
    I find it hard to believe that Supermarine here would be arguing with good faith. He must be a Poe. No one can be that thick.
    He's a superTechmarine, massive difference.

    For those who don't know what a poe is: a poe is like a troll, while a troll is obvious a poe takes on the persona of a fundamentalist group to make fun of them and are thus very very hard to spot. It's a name I think is unfair in this instance: it could be a language issue.
    (I've never met an idiot who likes warhammer)
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  6. #186

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    He's a superTechmarine, massive difference.

    For those who don't know what a poe is: a poe is like a troll, while a troll is obvious a poe takes on the persona of a fundamentalist group to make fun of them and are thus very very hard to spot. It's a name I think is unfair in this instance: it could be a language issue.
    (I've never met an idiot who likes warhammer)
    What do you mean?

    A: No idiots like Warhammer 40k
    B: Those who like Warhammer 40k are idiots.

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    What do you mean?

    A: No idiots like Warhammer 40k
    B: Those who like Warhammer 40k are idiots.
    A.
    The fact that you had to ask is throwing a shadow on my hypothesis.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  8. #188

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    Both are reasonable. We will probably never know. (unless some dude manages to invent a Time Machine)
    No, they are not. They are both possible but based on our knowledge only 1) is reasonable since it doesn't require an unknown actor but still explains everything.
    "Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
    Mangalore Design

  9. #189

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakkapeliitta View Post
    I find it hard to believe that Supermarine here would be arguing with good faith. He must be a Poe. No one can be that thick.
    Thick? You underestimate me.

    "Not to an observer from outside your particular religion, one is based on reason and facts: Mohammad had access to western traders, western traders often had stories to tell about how great their culture is (no people is more guilty of this than the Greeks) and Greek culture developed many of the scientific "revelations" claimed in the Koran. On the other hand the other proposal is a suspension of natural law where information is magically given to a man by some kind of deity.

    To an outsider there is no competition."-Himster

    Did Greeks really know of the Big Bang or are you just pulling that out of your ? (No offense intended)
    Last edited by SuperTechmarine; September 07, 2012 at 03:20 PM.

  10. #190
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    He's a superTechmarine, massive difference.

    For those who don't know what a poe is: a poe is like a troll, while a troll is obvious a poe takes on the persona of a fundamentalist group to make fun of them and are thus very very hard to spot. It's a name I think is unfair in this instance: it could be a language issue.
    (I've never met an idiot who likes warhammer)
    You have never met an idiot who likes Warhammer? Including 40k? Go to forums.spacebattles.com. You'll meet them there. The only difference to this place is that there you get called on your . Compared to this this is tame.

    But this is not so much an "echo chamber". And for that TWC is my home, even though I skirt the ban everyonce and a while.

  11. #191
    Hakkapeliitta's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    Thick? You underestimate me.

    "Not to an observer from outside your particular religion, one is based on reason and facts: Mohammad had access to western traders, western traders often had stories to tell about how great their culture is (no people is more guilty of this than the Greeks) and Greek culture developed many of the scientific "revelations" claimed in the Koran. On the other hand the other proposal is a suspension of natural law where information is magically given to a man by some kind of deity.

    To an outsider there is no competition."-Himster

    Did Greeks really know of the Big Bang or are you just pulling that out of your ? (No offense intended)
    o

    I would suspect that after your regious compatriots, just like it happened with Christianity, was that after they were exposed to more civilized thought they then took what they wanted and called it "their own". Isn't that what the Church Fathers did so that Greek Philosophy conforms with Christianity?

  12. #192

    Default Re: Existence of God

    I am sharing these two videos as food for thought. Hopefully it will enable us to see this discussion from another angle.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    "The Jews of the United States brought the United States into the first World War, and if you tow our line over Palestine and the Jew army there, we can persuade the Jews of the United States to drag the United States into it again this time."

    --Chaim Weizmann, Co-founder of Zionism, letter to Winston Churchill, PM Great Britain (David Irving)

  13. #193

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by SufianBabri View Post
    I am sharing these two videos as food for thought. Hopefully it will enable us to see this discussion from another angle.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Its true that the evolution theory fails to bring about any credible evidence.

  14. #194
    God's Avatar Shnitzled In The Negev
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    Watched the second video. I forgot that the only evidence for evolution that we kinda look like monkeys. And the theory of evolution says nothing about god. And we didn't come from monkeys. I'm not going to watch the first one because I bet it blames evolution/atheists for Hitler.

  15. #195

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Watched the second video. I forgot that the only evidence for evolution that we kinda look like monkeys. And the theory of evolution says nothing about god. And we didn't come from monkeys. I'm not going to watch the first one because I bet it blames evolution/atheists for Hitler.
    Well Hitler's master race and 'survival of the fittest' ideology is certainly a mirror image of evolutionary concepts.
    So spake the Fiend, and with necessity,
    The tyrant's plea, excused his devilish deeds.
    -Paradise Lost 4:393-394

  16. #196
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    Default Re: Existence of God

    There's no evidence Hitler was inspired by evolution, he even tried to ban books on it.

    OK I watched the first video, couldn't resist. He doesn't like the idea that an evil man like Hitler gets no punishment after death if there's no heaven and hell and the same happens to everyone. Choosing what to believe based on what he'd rather happen, not what the evidence points to. I hate this sort of thinking.

  17. #197

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    Its true that the evolution theory fails to bring about any credible evidence.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent


  18. #198

    Default Re: Existence of God

    oh, i guess i missed that.

  19. #199

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    There's no evidence Hitler was inspired by evolution, he even tried to ban books on it.
    I think what's more important is that he had absolutely no understanding of it. Evolution doesn't work on the scale of large groups as Hitler tried to apply it. It works on the scale of individuals, or, to be more accurate, individual genes. Regardless of whether or not he thought he loved darwinistic evolution, his actions were entirely irrelevant to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTechmarine View Post
    Its true that the evolution theory fails to bring about any credible evidence.
    How long have you been studying it?

  20. #200

    Default Re: Existence of God

    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Watched the second video. I forgot that the only evidence for evolution that we kinda look like monkeys. And the theory of evolution says nothing about god. And we didn't come from monkeys. I'm not going to watch the first one because I bet it blames evolution/atheists for Hitler.
    Not at all. The Hitler video doesn't blame any belief for his actions. Just watch it and you will know.

    PS: btw the video doesn't even mention the beliefs of Hitler at all.
    "The Jews of the United States brought the United States into the first World War, and if you tow our line over Palestine and the Jew army there, we can persuade the Jews of the United States to drag the United States into it again this time."

    --Chaim Weizmann, Co-founder of Zionism, letter to Winston Churchill, PM Great Britain (David Irving)

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