Ptolemy IV

**Constantine II "the Great"** · April 13, 2012, 06:16 PM

Well as of late, I was playing as the Ptolemic Empire and found something quite odd. It's nothing new to RSII I can most likely tell.

To expand, I've been trying to max out on Ptolemy IV's rating, winning battle after battle and leading his troops into battle as a warrior Pharaoh only to find his traits become more and more negative.

When I started, he had an absolutely amazing list of traits and now he is considered Ptolemy "the Coward" among other horrendous traits, even when he is the "Alexander the Great" of Egypt.

Is there any way to prevent / fix this?

**century x** · April 13, 2012, 08:33 PM

Could just be bad luck your having, or perhaps there might be an underlying trait issue.

**naq** · April 13, 2012, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Constantine II "the Great"

Well as of late, I was playing as the Ptolemic Empire and found something quite odd. It's nothing new to RSII I can most likely tell.

To expand, I've been trying to max out on Ptolemy IV's rating, winning battle after battle and leading his troops into battle as a warrior Pharaoh only to find his traits become more and more negative.

When I started, he had an absolutely amazing list of traits and now he is considered Ptolemy "the Coward" among other horrendous traits, even when he is the "Alexander the Great" of Egypt.

Is there any way to prevent / fix this?

Maybe there is a realistic side: his subjects hate him for being an aggressor and give him bad traits.

**Constantine II "the Great"** · April 13, 2012, 08:56 PM

I'm not sure I've really done anything counter-productive as far as I know. I've expanded Egypt's Empire, lowered Taxes to bare minimum, pushed the limits of architectural prowess in Alexandria all under him and he continues to decline. I even stationed him in Alexandria in hopes to gain favor, as result he lost 4 Management.

I'm going to send him and 10,000 men to defeat the Seleucid King and his army and I'll see where I am at after. If this is bad luck, I must have it and more.

**Ferdiad** · April 13, 2012, 09:29 PM

Only one possible solution to this, Pirate hunting.

**dvk901** · April 13, 2012, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Constantine II "the Great"

I'm not sure I've really done anything counter-productive as far as I know. I've expanded Egypt's Empire, lowered Taxes to bare minimum, pushed the limits of architectural prowess in Alexandria all under him and he continues to decline. I even stationed him in Alexandria in hopes to gain favor, as result he lost 4 Management.

I'm going to send him and 10,000 men to defeat the Seleucid King and his army and I'll see where I am at after. If this is bad luck, I must have it and more.

The most likely thing is that you love this guy so much you have turned him into a coward....a trait a General will get if he withdraws from a fairly evenly matched battle, or does not fight himself in battles. My guess is the lily-livered Greek is sitting back on his horse watching the battles, whilst eating dates and popcorn and being fanned by slaves, while his men die for him so he can be called a great Pharoah. But, his men and his people have his number, and wish to see him get off his butt and do some fighting.

Seriously, a General who does not fight will get the coward trait, and if he STILL does not fight, he can never get rid of it.

**Constantine II "the Great"** · April 13, 2012, 10:56 PM

With Ptolemy, I refuse to withdraw, if anything it only occurred once if at all. It's most likely the fact I auto-resolve 1/3ish of the battles involved with him, due to the fact I have lag issues that are still present. I'm going to go to a very early save before "the coward" stuck and make sure I stay off the "coward-ly" course of actions.

Though Dvk, when you said "and if he STILL does not fight, he can never get rid of it.", does that mean if I get Ptolemy more involved I can still lose the coward title? I just can't bear seeing the great Pharaoh himself, burdened with such a title.

**kanzy** · April 14, 2012, 03:15 AM

I used to get that Trait on many of my Generals but all that was fixed with RS 2.5.

**ur-Lord Tedric** · April 14, 2012, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by kanzy

I used to get that Trait on many of my Generals but all that was fixed with RS 2.5.

I'd like to note that I haven't seen the Coward trait at all since testing 2.5 in both its pre- & post- Open Beta variants - and I've been looking!

**naq** · April 14, 2012, 05:59 AM

Make sure you got the 2.5 Beta version.

**Smerka** · April 14, 2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by dvk901

The most likely thing is that you love this guy so much you have turned him into a coward....a trait a General will get if he withdraws from a fairly evenly matched battle, or does not fight himself in battles. My guess is the lily-livered Greek is sitting back on his horse watching the battles, whilst eating dates and popcorn and being fanned by slaves, while his men die for him so he can be called a great Pharoah. But, his men and his people have his number, and wish to see him get off his butt and do some fighting.

Seriously, a General who does not fight will get the coward trait, and if he STILL does not fight, he can never get rid of it.

Not every general fought in battles so are they all cowards? By that mindset Napoleon was a coward. A general's duty is to lead his men not get himself killed while trying to be a hero and cause panic for his troops. Everyone can't be like Alexander The Great and it's too high of a benchmark for coward or not.

**dvk901** · April 14, 2012, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Constantine II "the Great"

With Ptolemy, I refuse to withdraw, if anything it only occurred once if at all. It's most likely the fact I auto-resolve 1/3ish of the battles involved with him, due to the fact I have lag issues that are still present. I'm going to go to a very early save before "the coward" stuck and make sure I stay off the "coward-ly" course of actions.

Though Dvk, when you said "and if he STILL does not fight, he can never get rid of it.", does that mean if I get Ptolemy more involved I can still lose the coward title? I just can't bear seeing the great Pharaoh himself, burdened with such a title.

Your general needs to win 4 battles 'close' or better, and have fought in combat to redeem himself.

Originally Posted by Smerka

Not every general fought in battles so are they all cowards? By that mindset Napoleon was a coward. A general's duty is to lead his men not get himself killed while trying to be a hero and cause panic for his troops. Everyone can't be like Alexander The Great and it's too high of a benchmark for coward or not.

Hmm.....Napoleon took 400,000 French troops into Russia and returned with only 40,000. Nah, he wasn't a coward. He was an idiot!

But seriously, the conditions for getting the coward trait in RS2.5 are so low now that you'd almost have to 'try' to get, or as in this case above, get it unwittingly by auto-resolving all the time (in which case the General doesn't fight in combat). And what does that mean? Fighting in combat just means that he, at the very least, chased down a couple fleeing peltasts or whatever and killed ONE. I don't think that is asking too much. I'm not saying he has to charge into phalanxes or singlehandedly take out all the enemies cavalry...he just has to kill one guy or actually attack something.

**CTD_or_Bust** · April 14, 2012, 10:55 AM

I'm yet to see that trait. Which is nice. One of the absurdities of M2TW is if you want perfect governors you have to cycle every one of them in and out of settlements so they don't get lazy attributes.. if you don't want "The Drunk" you can't build inns if you don't want this if you don't want that....

Negative traits for negative actions is great but often times in M2TW it becomes a chore, then a hassle, then an acceptance because it's easier to deal with having those traits than it is to avoid them. Hah, in Stainless Steel nearly every one of my generals has reduced movement points from the in mod version of brutally scarred that reduces mp. I've had auto resolve battles that result in 0 casualties (not even a stray arrow hitting a friendly) and I've received that trait. The solution, as I've stated, is to accept and live with it. It's simply too much to actually play every single battle in a campaign that lasts thousands.

So, all and all, I'm very pleased that you've made it difficult to get "The Coward". I didn't even realize it was still in the game as I'd never seen it!

**First Citizen Gallienus** · April 14, 2012, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Constantine II "the Great"

I just can't bear seeing the great Pharaoh himself, burdened with such a title.

"Coward," can be a tough label to live with.

**Visarion** · April 14, 2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by dvk901

Hmm.....Napoleon took 400,000 French troops into Russia and returned with only 40,000. Nah, he wasn't a coward. He was an idiot!

and a genius too... I wouldn't say the "i" word... I would just say that he overreacted...

**Ferdiad** · April 15, 2012, 12:27 PM

You can't really compare Napoleon with any ancient General in a situation like this. It would be suicidal for a general to personally fight in the age of guns.