Proof is irrelevant in the face of faith.
Proof is irrelevant in the face of faith.
" This thread operates totally under the assumption that there is no God. I am not suggesting that there is no God - but for the sake of the idea to be discussed within this thread - we shall assume that there is not."
What you are asking is a question that only them who are convinced there is no God can possibly answer. Those that already know God cannot assume in any way that He doesn't exist. Indeed it can fairly be said that no man or woman, whatever they think they know, was born not knowing of the existence of God, why? Because God has built into each one knowledge of Himself no matter how small, it is there.
So, it is not hard to see that knowledge at work as each one tries to eliminate God from their minds which is something they bring with their arguments concerning something that doesn't exist. It's a bit like Dawkins and his imaginary Memes. He just can't get God out of his system and he doesn't see it as others do. So you will forgive me if I don't participate.
Perhaps you could participate in the second question then. The "how far would you go to stop someone proving there was no God" (assuming such a thing could be proved)
" Perhaps you could participate in the second question then. The "how far would you go to stop someone proving there was no God" (assuming such a thing could be proved)"
Since the hypothesis cannot be proven my task is then to reveal what God has done for me and others that I know of. The whole object of the Gospel is to reveal to man that God does exist, is more alive than we are, and in an instant can change lives where lives need changing. It is far easier to say that than to try to prove the impossible.
I definitely wouldn't. Religion improves many lives, either through giving people hope in the face of aversity or through charitable actions people carry out in the hope of some sort of reward.
Last edited by Drustan; April 16, 2012 at 08:06 AM.
I guess some people aren't reading the OP...
Immediately. Truth doesn't care what some person's emotional state is, or that they need a crutch. People would, in this circumstance, deserve to know.
I would absolutely spread around this proof (hypothetical of what such thing might consist as proof in this case). some people say that the idea of god brings comfort to the poor and the ones in need. Maybe the problem with this idea of comfort is really a problem. Often it stops people from moving to try solutions and improve their situation. Plus it would probably stop people doing some really nasty stuff with god as justification.
Beyond this i must say there is absolutely no proof that would convince religious people!
Because they have reduced cognitive abilities? Aren't able of abstract thinking? Have a mental disability?What you are asking is a question that only them who are convinced there is no God can possibly answer. Those that already know God cannot assume in any way that He doesn't exist.
"Yes, I rather like this God fellow. He's very theatrical, you know,
a pestilence here, a plague there... He's so deliciously evil."
Stewie, Family Guy
Nah, I wouldn't want to take alcohol from alcoholics, nor delusions from the delusional.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
Yes, yes I would. No idea how that proof would look like since well, how can you give proof that something doesn't exist ?
Mean did someone deliver proof that unicorns doesn't exist or did we just conclude that they don't exist based on the fact that there are none around.
But as Portuguese Rebel stated, that it gives hopes to millions is no reason to withhold it.
They should have hope in themselves, their families, loved ones and so forth, they are far more relevant and likely to help you.
Part of growing up is actually to learn how to live your life without comforting delusions, and to focus on what is actually true.
That is true for every established idea, and is irrelevant.Would you shatter that idea, keeping in mind that so many people believe it?
I actually doubt that that is the case, but regardless: it's a problem that can be overcome. I've never heard of anyone who has committed suicide over a deconversion.That some people even rely on it to function in their day to day?
An excellent incentive: others don't have to make that mistake.That some people have built their entire lives around that idea?
The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath
--- Mark 2:27
Atheism is simply a way of clearing the space for better conservations.
--- Sam Harris
The word of God (when untainted) also promotes peace and compassion which is quite hard to come by in strangers. Some people need to think they're part of something bigger before they'll even consider altruism.
I consider the fact that it's comforting certainly good enough reason to let people believe in it. I've been to a few mental institutions and aged homes on business, and I've seen numerous people being told their spouse is "Oh, just out at the shops, getting something" when in fact the spouse is dead. The idea being you want to spare these people the pain that comes with such a depressing realization.
I'm not saying that you're wrong, just some thoughts on what you posted.
That would depend on if or if not there was an afterlife, however I think probably my answer would be, HELL NO. World is too messed up with him/her, we don't need people latching on to world leaders as gods, people have religion, because they want religion, and there not being a god isn't gonna stop them, they'll either latch on to a moral and fracture off, or they'll try and kill those who say there is no god.
Col.32 For an independent Cornish, and English Parliment, within a U.K. that Includes Scotland!
For example: "You're on your deathbed but you're not worried about dying because of the afterlife? - Well you, you should worry about dying because it's true that there is no afterlife."
And another: "Think you can let yourself off the hook for that 'sin' that isn't affecting anyone? - Well you, keep feel guilty about it because there's no loving God that's forgiving you."
etc. etc. etc.
You inflict upon a person whatever they are managing with their, in other respects silly, beliefs, if you don't remove the need for the belief.
An analogy for you: You might well have a better design for a house, but do you seriously think I'm going to be better off if you come and knock mine down, leaving me with the rubble, for that reason alone? Of course you don't.
Last edited by Taiji; April 18, 2012 at 08:57 AM.
I have a fear here.
Lets say I had this proof, I could post it anonymously on the interwebs so I could avoid any retribution that sort of thing.
I'd still be very hesitant to use it.
Many people are obviously easily lead and illogical. Religion is a mostly benign filler which keeps them occupied.
Now imagine the religious masses transferring those unprovable and illogical beliefs to something less benign like politics. Its obvious many treat their politics like religion, where logic is not a factor, only the philosophy. Now think of a few billion people who naturally seem to lack skepticism thrown into various political philosophies with religious fervor and without religious rules?
I think those who are natural skeptics somehow think that if religious people were to get rid of god they will magically now be skeptics as well. I think thats a foolish assumption.
Dumbpiphany: The realization that the reason the entire conversation has been difficult to follow is that you're talking to an idiot.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sumskilz again.
My shameful truth.
Think about those who already apply religion to politics and uses that as a means to deny other human beings their rights.
The thing is, most people I meet whether religious or not tend to be pretty logical. They are capable of reason, but they merely suspend the rules of logic and reason they apply to anything else they encounter when they deal with religion.
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