Tools or no tools?

[Ferdiad]

Nonsense, EA games are the best in the Industry.

[Raimeken]

Any sane gamer would want a company to release mod tools for games, its just a matter of if the company is willing to do it or not, and the language CA has used to tell us about the modding situation is almost telling us that they aren't going to make any, as they claim that their developing tools were not made to be modding tools (unlike the CryEngine SDKs or the Creation Kit)

[Antalis]

I hope we will make our own tools (for the campaignmap) for Empire/Napoleon/Shogun2. I guess there will be no more help (maybe more information about the campaignmap would be wonderful) from CA or SEGA. But please make the next game modfriendlier.

[Humble Warrior]

I hope we will make our own tools (for the campaignmap) for Empire/Napoleon/Shogun2. .

Don`t know about that. I know Bethesda modders were able to make Tools that added to the main Mod Tools that Beth gave them which allowed them to do remarkable things, but I don`t know if it would be possible without main Mod tools.

I wouldn`t even be surprised if CA jumped down on anyone who was smart enough to make Mod Tools themselves and slap them with a `cease and desist` crap. I guess then that would confirm CA\SEGA`s real intentions.

[Hellenikon]

I don't believe we've ever confirmed that.

What about this official announcement?

The recent announcement that the uniform editor was being dropped jumped the gun a bit.
It’s true that we’re not planning to release the tool we originally designed. Some feature designs don’t pan out as imagined, and this one was frankly not great. All it would allow was the setting of colours for a particular unit type. It was clunky and didn’t do what most people actually wanted.
What we are planning to do is to release the full unit editor along with the data builder tool. This is the tool chain we used to create and edit the units in the game. It’s far more powerful than the uniform editor would have been.
There aren’t any areas of the game which in principle we don’t want players to be able to mod, but there are difficulties in practice in making it possible, and we do have some work to do to package up the tools.
We are intending to come up with a more comprehensive long term strategy on encouraging and facilitating mods, and will talk more about this soon, but for now I can say for sure that the Napoleon unit editor tools remain a priority. The tools are currently scheduled for release in the first half of 2011, this is of course dependent on how Shogun 2 progresses, and we will keep you updated.
We haven’t and won’t forget this, hence putting a date to it. For now Shogun 2 remains our top priority.
Thanks,
Mike

http://blogs.sega.com/totalwar/2010/10/22/modtools/

People don´t believe in CA anymore because they have failed to deliver in their promises far too many times. What happened with the ETW modding tools?, and with the NTW unit editor that "We haven´t and won´t forget about this"?, seems like you forgot completely. And no, some XML files is not the same thing, it is not what you promised.

If CA doesn´t care about supporting modding then it should at least be honest and say so, there is no fault in that, simply say that modding is on your own risk and that there will be no official support from CA. Otherwise it is the same marketing lies spinned time and time again.

[Huberto]

I'd be interested in hearing an update from Craig or someone at CA about this (was written ten months ago!):

Total War: The modding situation

Hi everyone,

The Total War series has a long and venerable history of modding, courtesy of yourselves. We’ve talked for a long time about releasing tools for your use, and as you’re (keenly!) aware this still hasn’t happened yet. We know you’re frustrated at the situation, and take it from us, so are we.

We would dearly love this to continue, and we’ve always aimed to release official tools to help you realise your own visions in the engine. But every time we sit down and talk about what’s actually involved (and we’ve had countless such meetings over the last couple of years), we hit a brick wall.

Creating a set of tools specifically for modding is never going to be the quick or simple procedure many of you would hope for, and between making games, creating new content and supporting each release with balances and fixes, our production schedules are fierce.

We hope that by being more transparent about our aims – and abilities – in future, and by providing useful data such as this, we can show that we really do value your creativity and hard work. You’re important to us, and important to the ongoing success and popularity of the Total War series.

Going forward, we’ll be working on a better strategy to support modding, and we’re now planning what we’re going to do for Shogun 2. But we’re going to stop promising specifics that we’re unable to deliver, as we all know how well that’s worked out in the past.

Happy modding,

The Creative Assembly

[Erwin Rommel]

We hope that by being more transparent about our aims – and abilities – in future, and by providing useful data such as this

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529152

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Mod tools isn't really a major issue honestly, Medieval 2 and RTW have great mods, play those

[Antalis]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529152

I didn´t noticed that. Thats nice from Craig. I hope he will help the community to mod every little piece of Empire and the other warscape games. Yes, if not the tools than information.

[Huberto]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=529152

While welcome, did that advance the ball, Erwin, or stave off disaster? Yes yes, they didn't have to do it, they are a business enterprise after all and owe us nothing, etc. etc.

Also we're still waiting for CA to fulfill it's commitment to transparency about their "aims and abilities... better strategy to support modding," etc.

[Felixlynch777]

Mod tools isn't really a major issue honestly, Medieval 2 and RTW have great mods, play those

Yes! Ignore the last 3 games of the series!

[Magz Empire]

The question is : How are they going to sell us Blood packs dlc´s type, if there are modding tools ?.


PS: Can someone send to Craig, the phone number of Todd Howard, so he can explain him better, how a great game can´t be injured for the release of good modding tools ?

Thank you.

[Taraphir]

Perhaps Creative Assembly would be so nice to resume communication with the community in regard to Empire Total War and Napoleon modding affairs.
The company should pay more attention to long term product support and stop abandoning their games at an far to early stage. More sustainability is of the essence.
In my opinion some documentation in regard to modding would be sufficient. Modding Tools are not really required.

[walrus2517]

From what I've gathered in the various "Mod Tools" threads I've seen over the years, there really aren't any "tools" they can release, i.e. map editor, because they are proprietary or too complex. The majority of modders I've seen laugh at the idea of "mod tools" because the mod scene generally makes their own.

As others have said though, what the mod scene needs is documentation. CA released some database info for ETW awhile back as a token of goodwill (even though most of it had already been figured out by modders) but it did provide some information on a few items. More efforts like that would be greatly appreciated, only preferably closer to game release rather than 2 years later after several people have spent hundreds of hours figuring it out on their own via trial and error.

Like many, I've been happy to see CA talk about supporting the mod scene, and it's great having Craig and Jack around here. But at some point, you have to put up or shutup, and CA has yet to put up anything for modders except a PR campaign.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Some documentation is the only thing we need.

I mean, a map editor is unnecessary, but some help on how to make our own...

[last_name_left]

Obviously, no. There never have been any, and in all likelihood there never will be.

Smell the coffee?

[Humble Warrior]

Like many, I've been happy to see CA talk about supporting the mod scene, and it's great having Craig and Jack around here. But at some point, you have to put up or shutup, and CA has yet to put up anything for modders except a PR campaign.

In other words, there`s a point where we have to stop following the carrot on a stick and say`You know, CA aren`t going to give us Mod Tools in the forseeable future`.

And the fact that Craig pops up to say `That`s not confirmed` I find somewhat disengenuous because all you`re doing, Craig, is getting people to waste their time in vain hope for who knows how long again- Forever? You can`t keep shouting wolf.

This is how someone loses their credibility.

Until those Mod tools appear, I`m sticking with `No Mod Tools because CA believes it affects their sales adversely`.

[Ferdiad]

Yes! Ignore the last 3 games of the series!

They're better than the latest 3 so that makes sense.

[Felixlynch777]

They're better than the latest 3 so that makes sense.

Lol true they are better but it doesn't mean ETW, NTW and Shogun 2 are bad games that don't deserve larger, more comprehensive mods...

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Mods are some of the only reasons they're still better, though.


With huge, comprehensive mods, SHogun 2 could easily beat Rome or M2TW.