"Pay or we attack" doesn't seem to work

[Nerror]

Specifically when the AI does it to me. I've tried it 5-6 times now, where the AI diplomat tells me to pay up or be attacked, and every single time I pay their army attacks anyway the second I close the diplomacy scroll. They don't take a hit on their reputation either, so it really seems like it's broken.

I'd be fine with the AI backstabbing once in a while, especially with an undependable faction, since that's part of the game, but at the very least their reputation should go down.

I'm playing with BGR-V on VH/VH so diplomacy is actually important (), but I already cleared with Byg that it's not a BGR-V issue.

Anyone know of a fix?

[Basileus Antiochus]

Well maybe because you play at VH/VH, everyone hates you anyway, because I play with M/M savage AI, when I pay, they usually leave me alone for the while

[Nerror]

Well maybe because you play at VH/VH, everyone hates you anyway, because I play with M/M savage AI, when I pay, they usually leave me alone for the while

Hrm ok thanks So the difficulty is partly the culprit.

Then I suggest in future versions of SS that the monetary amount is upped as difficulty goes up instead of the AI ignoring that I pay. That and the reputation hit.

Still would be nice with a fix, if anyone know one that doesn't require me to restart the campaign.

[Strengelicher]

In my campaigns, I sometimes get the same offer (pay tribute X or we attack). The amount to be paid is usually very low, and I always accept, thinking that the disadvantages of being at war with one more faction would weigh heavier than the little bit of money. However, I cannot recall having been attacked shortly after making the said agreement. Or, in other words, the faction which offered to not attack really did NOT attack. This was all SS 6.4 SavageAI vh/vh BGR IV-E. Hope the info helps.

[Ritterbruder44]

on hard, they usually ask twice and then still attack 3 turns later
on medium, I think it takes about 10 turns to just charge in, by which time I'm already prepared

[Byg]

I don't think you can call it a bug just because the ai has repeatedly deceived you. One of the AI's character descriptions is even called "deceitful".

[PerXX]

I quite often have the AI ask for trade rights, and then attack me the very same turn, even if they just paid me for said trade rights..

[Nerror]

Neither Norway nor Novgorod seem to be really deceitful factions, and they both did it several times each without any noticable consequence to their reputation, so I would call it faulty/bad CAI. I don't know much about the campaign scripting, so I have no idea if that's just the way things are in M2TW, or if it can be fixed/alleviated. Deceit would be fine, if that's what it is, but it strikes me as something else.

I quite often have the AI ask for trade rights, and then attack me the very same turn, even if they just paid me for said trade rights..

That's another good example. It kinda looks like the game is making the CAI decisions in stages without looking at what it just did as a parameter for the latter stages. I mean, it's like it first it looks at the economy and decides it would be nice with trade rights or to blackmail for money. Once that taken care of the expansion/conquering script starts up and does what it does, without using enough of the conclusions/actions from the previous part, at least on the VH difficulty.

[Navajo Joe]

After careful consideration of the facts and of the rationale in this diplomatic wrangling my answer would be

BRING IT ON, I WILL KICK YOUR SORRY ASS TO THE HOLE THAT YOU CREPT FROM.

I see myself similiar to Leonidas in the Film '300', where the Persians have sent diplomats, he duly throws then down a hole. I would rather die than to give in to the AI whim.

No Retreat, No Surrender

[Judeman266]

Asking for money and threatening to declare war is a way to declare war without getting a reputation hit. If the proposal is balanced and you don't accept it they will attack having given you fair warning. If you do pay it, you knew their intention and they can still attack you. Try it vs the AI, it is a way to formally declare war on the enemy without outright attacking them.

[jameseagle15]

I never accept it. I could use that money to prepare an army to defend myself. Instead of giving them the money which will help raise them an army to kill me. More often than not they always seem like empty threats.

[Strengelicher]

Asking for money and threatening to declare war is a way to declare war without getting a reputation hit. If the proposal is balanced and you don't accept it they will attack having given you fair warning. If you do pay it, you knew their intention and they can still attack you. Try it vs the AI, it is a way to formally declare war on the enemy without outright attacking them.

That's interesting, never tried that.

Generally, I find the campaign AI quite reasonable, but maybe that has to do with my style of play. At some point your neighboring factions will want to expand (just as you do), and they will often pick certain regions as preferred targets. Sometimes you can see this when they place troops next to a settlement of yours, but do not yet attack. If you strengthen the garrison of that settlement, they may get deterred and move away without attacking. I make it a point to keep certain settlements with a strong garrison to achieve this. Sometimes one or two turns later the diplomacy news screen will show that the potential attacker has started a war with another faction instead of you after moving his troops away.

The key, of course, is the economy. If you want to keep strong garrisons and have some extra units for your own conquests, you will need money. So optimise your income.

[Ichon]

AI threats are just a warning you can heed or not. If the cost is low paying might buy you 2-5 turns. If the cost is high and the AI is not currently in any other wars expect an attack even sooner. Sometimes it is enough warning to manage a diplomatic solution if you are busy on other fronts, or at least prepare your armies. I've had AI attack directly after I paid but its fairly rare. I usually only refuse to pay if the cost is high or I actually want a war.

[The Mouth]

I never accept it. I could use that money to prepare an army to defend myself. Instead of giving them the money which will help raise them an army to kill me. More often than not they always seem like empty threats.

Except that half the time the AI only asks you for 500-1000 gold/florins

[me_hungarian]

I always renegotiate remove the pay or we attack, leaving the offers clear then close the diplomacy window. They don't usually attack me after that and its free to do.

[Ritterbruder44]

I always renegotiate remove the pay or we attack, leaving the offers clear then close the diplomacy window. They don't usually attack me after that and its free to do.

MINDFVCK

[Ichon]

I always renegotiate remove the pay or we attack, leaving the offers clear then close the diplomacy window. They don't usually attack me after that and its free to do.

Hmm... I've found the AI moves ahead with an attack if you do that though really even if you pay the AI likely only delays a couple turns.

You can also renegotiate by clearing that demand and offering 2x the demand money as a gift. That almost always raises relations by 1 and can delay an attack more reliably.

[Ferdiad]

I've offered Maps and Trade for Money from the AI, that keeps em quit for a few turns as well.

[Basileus of Byzantium]

Reminds me of when I played Europa Barbarorum; the AI would always try to get me to become a protectorate and when I accept they attack me right after.

[Gen. Chris]

Lol, I once made a counteroffer and said the same thing to them. Can't remember what happened but I can imagine the AI was confused.