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Thread: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

  1. #1

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    I'm starting to get into modding Empire and Napoleon. I'd figured I'd start with Napoleon first because it is the one I play the most of all my total war games, and I have played all of them and own most of them.

    What this mod does is modify all of the unit sizes for every unit in the game. I have exact historical numbers and if not exact I have estimations based on the amount of battalions and companies per regiment, and how many men occupy them. And it is all based on faction, respectively. What I tried to do here was create a different tactical element that forces you to use a different strategy against different factions.

    This is just the first part of a mod I am doing for both Napoleon and Empire. I plan on implementing much more than just unit sizes. I eventually want to implement realistic battle mechanics for both land and naval battles. I also want to create a good campaign AI that, militarily, focuses on the realistic use and organization of an actual Napoleonic army. If possible I would like to make each faction's AI behave like the faction had behaved, in terms of military recruitment and aggressiveness, historically. Lastly, I would like to create a battle atmosphere (with smoke mods, sound mods, etc.) that is both enjoyable and realistic. The focus of the mod, in its entirety, is to create a simulation that is both historically accurate and brutally realistic.

    Back on topic... right now I have historical figures for:

    France (Unit Sizes based on 1808-1815 figures)
    Russia
    Poland
    Austria
    Prussia
    Great Britain

    This is my source: http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/

    The rest of the factions, of which I could not find reliable information on military and unit organization, have been given general unit sizes based loosely off of France's sizes.

    HISTORICAL UNIT SIZES INFO

    FRANCE
    Fusiliers/Line Infantry 180 Men
    Guards 200 Men
    Grenadiers 140 Men
    Skirmishers/Light Infantry 140 Men
    All Cavalry 140 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns

    RUSSIA (Boasted Poor Equipment, But Plenty of Willing Men to Raise A Military)
    Musketeers/Line Infantry 250 Men
    Skirmishers/Light Infantry 200 Men
    Cavalry 140 Men
    Artillery (Had Plenty of Artillery to Compensate for Quality of Equipment)
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 8 Guns
    -Howitzers 5 Guns

    POLAND (Not Sure Why, But They Had Large Armies)
    Line Infantry 230 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 4 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns
    Cavalry
    -Chasseur-a-chevel 170 Men
    -Curassiers 300 Men
    -Uhlans 210 Men
    -Hussars 230 Men

    AUSTRIA (I Clearly Had the Most Information on This Faction)
    Fusiliers/Line Infantry
    -German Infantry 180 Men
    -Hungarian Infantry 200 Men
    Grenadiers (both German and Hungarian) 120 Men
    Grenzers 200 Men
    Skirmishers/ Light Infantry 200 Men
    Cavalry
    -Cuirassiers/Dragoons 144 Men
    -Uhlans/Chevanglers (or whatever way it is spelled)/Hussars 180 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 4 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns

    PRUSSIA
    Musketeers/Line Infantry 150 Men
    Fusiliers 130 Men
    Grenadiers 300 Men
    Cavalry 120 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns

    GREAT BRITAIN
    Line Infantry 225 Men
    Guard Infantry 100 Men (My guess is that their primary purpose was to guard the cities and such conquered or part of the british isles)
    Cavalry
    -Guard Cavalry/Dragoons/Hussars 150 Men
    -Light Dragoons 130 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns


    GENERAL UNIT SIZES INFO

    Because I could not find any reliable information on other factions, I more or less made up decent number of troops that were based off of the other values I had found. I plan to find later information and expand upon this part of my future overhaul.

    NOTE: Some of the following unit sizes were used in the factions I had found historical numbers on. I did so to add a little bit of balance in light of missing historical information. Plus, you can't put a historical amount on a rabble of armed citizens or a militia. Such values were at my discretion.

    The sizes are as follows:

    Line Infantry 180 Men
    Grenadiers 140 men
    Guard Infantry 120 Men
    Cavalry 140 Men
    Militia 200 Men
    Light Infantry 180 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns (Obviously the howitzers in the game are not as dangerous as they really were. It seems there is a trend across the world on the amount of howitzers brought into the field. Also, the cost of creating a howitzer, and the ammunition used, could be a factor in the use and production of them.)


    CURRENT VERSION: v1.0

    CHANGELOG
    Nothing as of yet.


    IF YOU FIND, THROUGH YOUR OWN RESEARCH, THAT THE UNIT SIZES ABOVE ARE NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, FEEL FREE TO POST IT HERE OR PM. IT IS PREFERABLE FOR YOU TO PM ME SO THAT IT ENSURES I GET THE INFORMATION, AND NOT MISS IT WHILE I READ AND REPLY TO COMMENTS. I'M GOING FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY HERE.

    IF YOU FIND THAT THE INFORMATION PORTRAYED ABOVE IS NOT THE SAME IN-GAME AS IT IS DISPLAYED IN THIS THREAD, LET ME KNOW. I AM CONTINUALLY SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ON THE OTHER FACTIONS IN THE GAME AS WELL, SO IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON ANY OTHER FACTIONS FORWARD IT TO ME SO I CAN IMPLEMENT THE INFORMATION. THANKS IN ADVANCE.

    Enjoy. Download in the attachment.


    I forgot the install instructions.

    Put it in Napoleon: Total War's data directory.

    It is a mod pack, so you'll need to either add it to the user.script file or activate it using the Mod Manager for NTW.
    Last edited by Darth Red; April 13, 2012 at 11:30 AM. Reason: double post

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Sounds like an ambitious project! But looks good. There are unit size distinctions between factions like Britain and Russia already, though.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin View Post
    Sounds like an ambitious project! But looks good. There are unit size distinctions between factions like Britain and Russia already, though.
    On the contrary, sir, when I was editing the stats table in pack file manager the amount of troops in the game were virtually the same for nearly all factions. I saw all cavalry units using the same 80 men, and generals using the same 24. All line infantry and fusiliers were using 160... the list goes on and on. I left the generals alone, but everything else is changed. True, there are still some recurring numbers in the factions, but that is because of lack of information for those particular factions. I'm working on it though

    UPDATE

    I was playing the game and noticed a few number inconsistencies with the number I provided, and saw a few cavalry units that had 140 men, but only 80 horses in the file. That is now fixed after going thoroughly through the mod files again. Now everything should be on point. All that needs to be done is research info on the other factions.

    Also, I forgot install instructions in the original post, and because I haven't been on the forums more than a couple days it won't let me edit the post. The pack is in mod format. After placing it into the data directory in the napoleon directory in your program files you need to make an entry in the user.script file or activate it using the Mod Manager for NTW.

    Current Version: v1.1 Download the attachment.


    UPDATE

    I found info on Sweden. The source: http://www.napoleon-series.org/milit...edisharmy.html

    I can't implement the changes from that research right now, because it requires alot of extensive editing into buildings and custom units due to the fact that Sweden does not actually have its own special units. Like alot of the other smaller factions its shares a few units with other factions. I'm actually getting into learning that right now how to edit and create custom units and buildings. Soon I'll be able to implement more accurate unit sizes into other factions that are the same way.

    Also, I found that some of the cavalry units had the proper amount of men, but not the same amount in horses. I also changed a few sizes that were inaccurate. Everything should be on point now. Enjoy the update.
    Last edited by Darth Red; April 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Decanus
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    Icon7 Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Weel done Sir, i´m expecting for future realeases including most of factions accurate historical sizes.
    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    On what did you base the size of your units exactly? A company?

    From your own source for France

    War battalion in 1808-1815:

    One grenadier company of 140 men (in light infantry called "carabinier company")
    One voltigeur company of 140 men
    Four fusilier companies of 140 men each (in light infantry called "chasseur companies")

    Yet you used
    Fusiliers/Line Infantry 180 Men
    Grenadiers 140 Men
    Skirmishers/Light Infantry 140 Men
    All Cavalry 140 Men


    In 1809 at Wagram the French had 209 squadrons with an average of 139 men per squadron

    But a squadron, had two companies, so that's 70 men per company.


    For Britain, you have a line infantry at 225 men. Based on what? A british company was more like 80. But they had more (10 companies in a batallion, compared to 6 for France).


    Beside, the strictly historical approach is not sufficient.

    You need to take count of the gameplay. Having cavalry the same size as infantry will have an effect on gameplay. You can't simply change the size, you also need to adapt the cost, the upkeep, possibly the attack, etc.

    Also, you have 300 Grenadiers for Prussia, but 120 for Austria.... Did you think about game balance at least two seconds before making your list?

    Guard Infantry 100 Men (My guess is that their primary purpose was to guard the cities and such conquered or part of the british isles)

    "Guard" infantry so they guard the cities.... very funny... They are supposed to be the best of the British army.

    Although I understand the drive to make thinks historical (I did the same thinking initially), you need to take more time to review your figure, to be historical and yet interesting gameplay wise, and set clear "rules" explaining on what you base your figure, and how you reconcile different doctrines and organization in different faction.



  6. #6
    Prince of Essling's Avatar Napoleonic Enthusiast
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    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    I would endorse Steph's comments - and you can find find some basic information on battalion composition including company strengths (& the major changes) incorporated into the various Regimental names: threads:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=399424 Austria
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=408864 France
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=385953 Great Britain
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=399681 Prussia
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=402583 Russia
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436889 Minor States/Nations - so far : Baden, Bavaria, Grand Duchy of Berg, Brunswick, Hesse-Darmstadt,Hessen-Kassel, Kingdom of Italy, Kingdom of Naples, Oldenburg,Sardinia, Saxony, Two Sicilies, Duchy of Warsaw, Westphalia& Wurttemberg
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=460616Spain
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=9917327#post9917327 Sweden
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=10364723#post10364723 Hanover
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=469295 Ottoman Empire
    Last edited by Prince of Essling; April 13, 2012 at 04:54 PM.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    @ Steph

    All valid points. Right now I'm just trying to get the unit sizes all figured out. Then I will go about setting up proper upkeep, unit costs, etc. based on the faction and the unit in question.

    For example, Russia, like above, had alot of troops. Similar to WW2 they used alot of conscription, and the men involved in the army had alot of patriotism. But, their euipment sucked. They were much less accurate than other european muskets. Russia also used alot of poor powders, thus making their weapons dirtier faster. With poor industries in the actual manufacture of the muskets this made them even worse. But, the Russians balanced this out with plenty of artillery, and intense drill with the bayonet. Each Russian musketeer carried 60 cartridges.

    In terms of the game, these characteristics would make their morale higher than average compared to the rest of the factions. Because of drill with the bayonet, their melee skills are also higher than most of the other factions. Also, accuracy will go down for Russian infantry, as will reloading skill (poor metallurgy in manufacturing the weapons=unreliability in handling it). Their ammunition will reflect 60 cartridges. I haven't even begun to edit these kinds of characteristics for the factions. The focus right now is in accurate figures for troops.

    Also, Steph, I looked at it again, the number I picked up were on a company level. But, some of the other numbers on different section of my source, they were at a regiment level. I didn't even realize it. I'll go look over my numbers again and correct it. Thanks man

    And with the grenadiers, I didn't try to explain the reason for that number, only that it was there. Maybe Austria used less grenadiers than Prussia. It would all depend on the individual faction's preferred tactics. I'm trying to stay away from any generalities if at all possible. That is the focus of this mod.

  8. #8
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGuyDidIt View Post
    And with the grenadiers, I didn't try to explain the reason for that number, only that it was there. Maybe Austria used less grenadiers than Prussia. It would all depend on the individual faction's preferred tactics. I'm trying to stay away from any generalities if at all possible. That is the focus of this mod.
    No, you just read it wrongly. You have seen "600 grenadiers in a batallion", then look at the pictures and saw two grenadiers company, and then jumped to the conclusion a company was 300.
    But the two companies are for the normal "peace time" regiment. In campaign grenadiers from several regiments are grouped to form a grenadier bataillion. There is actually 4 grenadiers companies in the bataillion, so it's 150 grenadiers in a company.

    Before rushing to release something that could be poorly done, take your time to double check your sources, make tables, show it the community for comment and correction, and after that you start your mod.

    When you build an house, build the fundation, then the walls, and add the roof last! You need to make a lot of research and design before you open the db.

    And be careful of the trap of the "all historical" without looking at the broader picture.

    For instance, a French company was 140 men, and a British company 70-80. But a French batallion had 6 companies 840 men), while a British bataillion had 10 companies (700-800 men)

    So if you look at the batallion level (the unit size which was actually used the most af the tactical level), you see that the British are only slighly smaller than the French.

    If you have a company only approach, you'd have the British half the size of the French. Completlty unbalanced. You could compensate by dividing the cost of the British by 2, and consider the British just have to recruit twice as many units as the French.

    Except since an army is limited to 20 units, at the start of the battle the French would have twice as many soldiers as the British. Unbalanced.

    You can use the company as a first base, but you need to ponder it with many other factors
    Last edited by Steph; April 13, 2012 at 05:10 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    ThatGuyDidIt,

    I would encourage you to experiment and find things out and make suggestions and ask questions, just as you have above. While much has already been done (and assumed), there is always a place for fresh enthusiam and interest. You'll find folks here who will help and give you input (and 'redirection' sometimes ), but please do share your ideas and don't wait for permission, or perfection. It's what the term "WIP" is for!

    I won't be able to answer all of your questions by any means, but I will try when I can. And there are masses of mods and help threads all over this forum. Use and enjoy them!

    Good luck with your project, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph
    When you build an house, build the fundation, then the walls, and add the roof last! You need to make a lot of research and design before you open the db.
    I would endorse this statement as well as this suggestion which cast Prince of Essling in his post.
    It would be good make some better research and calculate some things and then start modding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph
    And be careful of the trap of the "all historical" without looking at the broader picture.

    For instance, a French company was 140 men, and a British company 70-80. But a French batallion had 6 companies 840 men), while a British bataillion had 10 companies (700-800 men)

    So if you look at the batallion level (the unit size which was actually used the most af the tactical level), you see that the British are only slighly smaller than the French.

    If you have a company only approach, you'd have the British half the size of the French. Completlty unbalanced. You could compensate by dividing the cost of the British by 2, and consider the British just have to recruit twice as many units as the French.
    Steph is absolutely right and I could add that proper unit size and game balance was quite old question.

    There is hard find good solution.
    I still think that tactical level could be represented by infantry battalion, cavalry squadron and artillery company or battery. However number of men in each unit in the game for these infantry and cavalry formations should be divided by 10. This scale could be hard to implement as accurate ratio needed in well balanced game, but it could be the best way in this unit size case.

    PS
    Historicaly Austrian Empire had more grenadiers than Prussia I suppouse.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    very valid points gentlemen

    i'm working on changes right now

  12. #12
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Quote Originally Posted by exNowy View Post
    I still think that tactical level could be represented by infantry battalion, cavalry squadron and artillery company or battery. However number of men in each unit in the game for these infantry and cavalry formations should be divided by 10. This scale could be hard to implement as accurate ratio needed in well balanced game, but it could be the best way in this unit size case.
    It's not that simple. The French batallion for instance included Grenadier, Voltigeur and Fusilier. But the game engine allows only one type of soldier in a unit.
    So if we consider a unit only has one type of soldier, then the unit should be based on a company.
    Then, we have a full army based on 20 companies. Which is ridiculous. So unit shouldn't be based on a company.
    So... Units should be based on a company, and unit shouldn't be based on a company.
    Since this leads to a illogical conclusion, it means the hypothesis is not correct. I.e. we cannot use a stricly historical approach, since it cannot at the same time give a realistic result for battle and for campaign.

    The solution I used in Masters of Europe was to base the size mostly on the companies, but then to use "relative" size, and taking gameplay into account.

    We made the French line companies 160. Why since there were 140 soldiers? Because they were also several officers, and there is only one, so it's not really unrealistic
    Then we used 140 for the grenadiers and 120 for the voltigeurs. The reason here is gameplay. Since the grenadiers are elite and stronger one on one than fusilier, if they are the same size, then you could simply recruit grenadiers only and never have fusiliers. By making the size of the fusilier a little bigger, it helps with the balance. For voltigeurs it's a little the same, and also since they spread more, a unit too large will pause some difficulty on the battlefield.
    And at the end, we have an average of 140 for the French (exactly that for grenadier, a little more for the fusilier, and little less for voltigeur).

    And from this base, we can make the other faction. British companies had 80 men when France had 140? Well, we cannot use historical figures or we will unbalance things too much. And it doesn't reflect the size of the batallion.

    So here I weighted the size of the companies with the size of the batallion: since the British had 10 companies instead of 6, it means that to make it even, I should change the size of the companies, and make 80 x 10 / 6 = 133.
    To round it, and using the gameplay decision to have grenadier and light infantry a little smaller than the line, I end with 120 grenadiers and light infantry in a unit, and 140 line infantry.

    The British companies are still a little smaller than the French, preserving the "historical relative size", but the proportion of the difference is not too big, and in game the British units can hold their ground against a French unit of the same size, using their better accuracy and reload to compensate the smaller size.

    This is just an example showing that using an historical base as a guide to capture a "feeling" (British smaller than French) is important, but still needs a lot of additional thinking to get it right in game.

    One last thing. Since I said before a unit cannot really be based on historical names (seeing a unit in battle named a regiment or batallion when it doesn't have a mix of unit seems weird, and on the campaign seeing a unit named a company would be even weirder), I think the solution is simply not to give the unit a specific name. Don't say it's a Grenadier Company, or a Grenadier Batallion, or a Grenadier regiment.
    Just say they are "Grenadiers". The regimental name is still there.
    But instead of saying this is the "3rd regiment of Grenadiers", say these are "some grenadiers of the 3rd regiment". And then, each player can imagine want he wants when playing, and make it varies with the situation. In battle, he can imagine it's several companies grouped in a batallion. Or he can imagine it's a company and the battle just represent a part of the actual battle, where the most decisive action takes place. On the campaign, he can imagine it's the whole regiment.
    Keep the name vague enough to preserve freedom of imaganiation. Don't imprison the imagation in a cell of words.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Hi Steph,

    what i have done to improve the "historical" number of units in the way of (how i found) a realy smooth and good gameplay is to put all units in a battalion strenght except light infantry. Light infantry is in company strenght. Grenadiers are put togehter, like it sometimes was in real history, in grenadier battalions but a little lesser number then line inf.
    And dont forget to change the costs for the units.
    For Example:
    Line Inf French: 640 men
    Line Inf Austrians:hungary 840 / german 760
    Line Inf British: 600 men
    Grenadiers between 340 to 600 men
    light inf and skirmishers are at company level 120-150 men. (they are realy worth it cause of the light inf tactics and better accuracy.)

    Take a look at the real battalion numbers. Take the light inf and grenadiers away from it. Put the line inf and fussilier inf togehter in a battalion. put the regimental Grenadier numbers togehter in a battalion (lower available units) and leave the light inf and skirmishers as was they are. Company levels to skirm the battalion. They doing a relay good job unless they are in an meleefight. but they are able to hold on against an battalion for a long time cause of the skirmish and light inf tactics and there accuracy. Try it. its realy an historical feeling over all. And u see huge numbers of men and real battles with 15k men or more.
    I was very impressed how smooth this kind of gameplay is with this numbers. For me the best of all tested numbers. And dont forget to change the costs and upkeep costs in the right way like you change the numbers of a unit.

    Artillery: And artillery is still the same like it was. Battery unit strenght with 2-6 guns per unit. AI have mostly 2-4 artillery units in an 20 stack army, what is very historical. To much artillery destroys the gameplay.

    Cavallery: Unit size is a squadron/Eskadrons size of 130-150 men per unit.


    I play this with the lme mod acctualy. And it makes a lot of fun. Only disadvantage is that the infantry cant use square formations until they are less then 400 men. But an infantry battalion size of 600+ men is hard to route with 1 cavalry unit if they dont attack in the rear.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    That's why I said that it is hard find good solution there.

    Nevertheless your proposition needs too many calculations.
    Worse that this way you still could have some glitches with units size and balance for each faction.

    I did not stick my propositions with units tactical names used in the game.
    I suggested that these historical basic tactical units could be good base for simple balanced calculations.
    Batalions, squadrons, batteries and specialized companies were normal tactical units which were taken into simple account on battlefields at that period. These basic units historicaly had similar strength almost for all nations at that time.

    There were many national differences and exceptions, but these things did not change too much basic tactical conditions.
    We should remember that teoretical strenght in reality never was the same for all units.
    Nevertheless in the game should be chosen somehow average model.

    Then these tactical units could be base for unit size for all factions in the game.
    However there are needed some recalculations for gamplay more realistical balance between units' types as well as betwen factions.

    Therefore there could be such result for every European factions basic unit in the game:

    - line infantry (e.g. Fusiliers etc.) include 80 to 100 men
    - light infantry (e.g. Chasseur etc.) include 80 to 100 men
    - grenadiers 80 to 100 men
    - marksmen or skirmishers specialized units (Volitgeur, Jagers, Riflemen) could be much smaller, even 15 men.
    However they could be calculate as few 'companies' which fought together, then this unit in the game could include 45 men.
    - cavalry smaller unit (squadron) 20 men
    - cavalry bigger unit (regiment) 40 or 60 men for cavalry used in pitched battles
    - artillery 'battery' 2 or 3 cannons plus 1 howitzer
    Well balanced artilley it could be big issue. I suggest include little bit less cannons, but more artillery basic units.
    There still could be problem for Russian artillery, because their historicaly battery had 12 guns while other nations had 6 or 8 guns.

    These my propositions give some needed simplicity and organize basic game units on historical base for simple tactical level.

    It is not a perfect model, but much better than any strange and more complicate calculations I suppose.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Now that's some insight. But what I want to do, when I've got the numbers good to go as much as I can, is make both a strictly company level version and a battalion level version so that people without really good PC's can still play the mod.

    I have an update for you guys:


    Current Version: v1.2


    I had alot of incorrect and invalid numbers for previous versions. I made calculations based on individual unit strengths. These were strengths that the units had obtained over a long campaign against Napoleon. They were inaccurate because of that. I didn't use them anymore. I looked more closely and came to much better unit sizes. Historically, unit sizes were actually pretty balanced to begin with. I'm still hashing out more research for other factions and working on actual in-game battle mechanics. I got the green light to tweek the NTW3 battle mechanics to tailor them to this mod. For now, it's just the unit sizes in the update mainly because I don't feel the battle mechanics are ready yet. I'm not straying from historical numbers. That is how the faction operated back then, so that is how it it will be in the mod. Balance comes from in-game battle realism (Battles, Upkeep, Unit Cost, etc.), which is quickly on the way.

    Numbers that were changed have an asterisk next to them. Everything is at the company level right now.


    NEW NUMBERS FOR FACTIONS

    FRANCE
    Fusiliers/Line Infantry 140 Men *
    Guards 200 Men
    Grenadiers 140 Men
    Skirmishers/Light Infantry 140 Men
    All Cavalry 120 Men
    *
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns

    RUSSIA
    Musketeers/Line Infantry 145 Men *
    Skirmishers/Light Infantry 145 Men *
    Cavalry 96 Men * (Russia used smaller cavalry units because they felt they were easier to manage.)
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 8 Guns
    -Howitzers 5 Guns

    POLAND
    Line Infantry 140 Men *
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 4 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns
    Cavalry 100 Men *
    -Chasseur-a-chevel 170 Men
    -Curassiers 300 Men
    -Uhlans 210 Men
    -Hussars 230 Men

    AUSTRIA
    Fusiliers/Line Infantry
    -German Infantry 180 Men
    -Hungarian Infantry 200 Men
    Grenadiers
    (both German and Hungarian) 120 Men
    -German 120 Men *
    -Hungarian 150 Men *

    Grenzers 200 Men
    Skirmishers/ Light Infantry 200 Men
    Cavalry
    -Cuirassiers/Dragoons 144 Men
    -Uhlans/
    Chevauxlégers/Hussars 180 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 4 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns

    PRUSSIA
    Musketeers
    200 Men *
    Line Infantry 172 Men *
    Fusiliers 130 Men
    Grenadiers 200 Men *
    Cavalry 120 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns

    GREAT BRITAIN
    Line Infantry 100 Men *
    Guard Infantry 100 Men
    Cavalry
    -Guard Cavalry/Dragoons/Hussars 150 Men
    -Light Dragoons 130 Men
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns



    NEW GENERAL UNIT SIZES

    Line Infantry 140 Men *
    Grenadiers 140 men
    Guard Infantry 140 Men *
    Cavalry 140 Men
    Militia 200 Men
    Light Infantry 200 Men *
    Artillery
    -Foot/Horse Artillery 6 Guns
    -Howitzers 2 Guns


    Now this is a good time for critics. This time there is something to judge with opinion and suggestion. I'd like to keep it that way. It doesn't make sense to be a critic on something you haven't seen yet.

    In any case, enjoy the update.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    I agree with Chamba in regard to his proposed scales. One way of thinking of it is in regard to various flags. I can only speak for the British Army but that would be:

    - Infantry would be organised into battalions, which had colours (Regimental and Kings')*
    - Cavalry would be organised into squadrons, which had standards (for Dragoon Guards and Household Cavalry) or guidons (for Dragoons) and light cavalry none.

    *If you arrange your infantry into companies then they shouldn't technically have colours, as they were for a whole battalion, not for a company, unless you were to only give them to the lead company, say a Grenadier unit.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Yeah I'm gonna have to agree. It's just more fun with more infantry on the field. And I've started implementing battle mechanics and fog of war. Update coming soon.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    British Guards regiments on average had more men than the average line regiment, generally consisting of 2-4 battalions. Also, as to their duties; the first one is to guard the Royal family, but only one battalion does that at a time, and their second duty was to go on campaign and fight, not guard against invasion (surely that's the duty of all military?).

  19. #19

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rt Hon. Daniel Ryan View Post
    British Guards regiments on average had more men than the average line regiment, generally consisting of 2-4 battalions. Also, as to their duties; the first one is to guard the Royal family, but only one battalion does that at a time, and their second duty was to go on campaign and fight, not guard against invasion (surely that's the duty of all military?).
    Because of the prestigious nature of the Foot Guards at least one of the regiments have been present in every major British campaign. I believe at this time the 1st Regiment of Foot Guards had 3 battalions and the Coldstream and 3rd (Scots) Regiments two each. My understanding is the 1st Battalion 1st Regiment of Foot Guards was the stay at home and guard the royal palaces battalion, simply because it contained the 'King's Company' (now Queen's) which was made up of the tallest soldiers and so the most impressive for parade. In fact one still has to be over 6ft to join the Queen's Company.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Historical Unit Sizes, Based On Faction

    Okay. I do apologize folks for the massive delay, but life stuff got in the way. I am just now starting to mod this again. Hopefully I get some updates out soon. Thanks for the patience gents

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