OFFICIAL: WIP SUBMOD - Imperial Splendour 2.2.1b - State, Regimental and Naval Flags

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Title says it all, I've made an other thread in the forum about realistic flags, but sadly it seems uppix is down so all my pictures as well and I would like to discontinue my topic to start a fresh and more coherent one here.

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Konungariket Sverige - Kingdom of Sweden

> Sveriges flagga - Sweden Flag

> Liffana flagga - Colonel's Flag

> Sveriges örlogsflagga - Sweden War Ensign


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Kongeriget Danmark - Kingdom of Denmark

> Splitflag - Danish State Flag

> King's regimental flag

> Orlogsflag - Danish Naval Flag




Herzogtum Württemberg
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Stato della Chiesa - Papal States

> Bandiera della Chiesa - Papal States Flag

> Bandiera da guerra della Chiesa - War flag of the Papal States

> Bandiera della marina da guerra della Chiesa - Papal States navy war Ensign


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Serenissima Repubblica di Venezia - Most Serene Republic of Venice

> Gonfaloni della Repubblica Serenissima - Flag of the Republic of Venice

> Bandiera di fanteria Veneta - Venice infantry flag

> Bandiera di nave Veneto - Naval Venetian flag


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Serenissima Repubblica di Genova - Most Serene Republic of Genoa

> Bandiera di stato "della signoria" - State flag of the lord

> Bandiera di fanteria Genova - Genoa infantry flag

> Bandiera di nave Genova - Naval Genoa flag


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Regno di Sardegna - Kingdom of Sardinia

> Bandiera dal Regno di Sardegna - Flag of the Kingdom of Sardinia

> Bandiere colonnelle altri reggimenti di fanteria - Infantry regiment colonel's flag

> Bandiera marittima sarda -Naval flag of Sardinia


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Marāṭhā Sāmrājya - Maratha Confederacy

> Flag of the Maratha Confederacy

> Battle flag of the Maratha Confederacy

> Naval ensign of the Maratha Confederacy


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Shāhān-e Gūrkānī - Mughal Empire

> Shir-u-khurshid Alam - Flag of the Lion and Sun:

> Mughal war flag:

> Naval Mughal ensign:


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Misl - Sikh Confederacy

early 18th century design. Late 18th century is different.
> Nishan Sahib -Sikh flag

> Nihang or Khalsa Nishan Sahib - Sikh warrior cast flag.

> Sikh navy flag


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Maisūru saṃsthāna -Kingdom of Mysore

> Sultan's flag

> Battle flag

> Naval flag of Mysore


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Râjputâna -Rajputana
> Rajputana flag

> Rajputana war flag

> Rajputana Navy


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Nizam-ul-Mulk ēka Haidarābād - Nizam of Hyderabad

> Hyderabad flag

> Hyderabad war flag

> Hyderabad naval ensign


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Navāb ēka Āṟkāṭu - Nawab of Arcot

> Nawab flag

> Nawab war flag

> Nawab Navy

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

I've finished the Papal States flags. What do you think? You have different versions, so you can pick whichever you prefer. My favorite regimental flags are 1, 4 and 7. Next will be Venice as I really want to make a beautiful flag for them.

For the naval flag I've put some flag vector over it. What do you think, I've tried it too for other flags:

Constrast too strong maybe?

Because, really, we have to keep in mind that flags shouldn't be dirty and coarse. They were made most of the time out of silk and the details were painted, while the huge patchwork of colors added. In any case, soldiers were taking great care of their flags, the most important soldier in the regiment was the flag carrier and he was to be protected at all cost during battle.

[Flikitos]

I really like this one:


(Good idea buddy for your thread! )

[wangrin]

Papal States flag was composed of a red background with the arms of the living pope.

I didn't find documents about XVIIIth century regimental flags, but the one I've used was recorded to have been used during early XVIIth century, if I remember.
It was composed of a cross with St Pierre and St Paul on both sides.

STATO PONTIFICIO

Stato della Chiesa : XIVth century (really out of IS timeline...)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Well, the State flag I've done above is red (or white, they are also saying it was white by the 18th century) and with the Papal States coat of arms. I didn't put the Pope's coat of arms because I didn't know which one to choose. And just check the website flags, they just put the keys and add in the description "con lo stemma del pontefice regnante". We can't make the difference with or without the coat of arms, feel the same.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Out of date, find new informations. Former proposition irrelevants.

Yeah, no luck so far either, I'v found the exact same website back when I was trying to make the flags on the other thread.

As you can see, I've done one regimental flag looking like during Middle-Age (white cross and keys in each squares). Sadly we only have before and after war flags of the Papal States, so we can only do with them. Also, while researching for the other states, many Italian flags from Middle Age where still used during the 18th century. Of course, the shape changes, but the overall design stayed.

Anyway, for the infantry flag, I've done a "common" version around on the web: red flag with Papal States keys and tiara. I've done also different versions of the Swiss guards' flag. And at last, inspired from Middle-Age but also 19th century flags, I've done 3 versions with St Peter and St Paul. I've choose to put the Papal States coat of arms instead of the cross and Jesus (because I saw old flags using it this way). But I can put the cross and Jesus if you like?

Edit: I've made a white and red version of the regimental flag with the cross.

Edit 2: first time I see this page, wasn't there last time I went I think! http://digilander.libero.it/breschir...antica.html#bp But glad I see it: it says clearly what was the war flag for the Papal State during the 18th century: the gold and silver keys with the tiara on a red flag (used later with the camerlingo arms). It's not a regimental flag, but well, that's good enough. And for the Papal State flag, it says clearly on each pages that the white version was in use by the 18th century.

EDit 3: I've finally found the Venice regimental flag ^^

[wangrin]

About Venice, I've create 2 possible regimental flags.
The first one (red and blue) was for "oltramarine" regiments.
The second one (white field with St Marc's lion) was a colonel flags for Italian regiments.

Both come from the book : "L'Esercito Veneziano del'700 - Ricerche e schizzi"

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Indeed, didn't see you made the right ones. The regular regimental flag of Venice was white field with St Marc's Lion standing on see and land.


By the end of the 18th century (1790s), it was simplified with just St Marc's Lion. The "oltramarine" flag appeared at the same time period.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's also the "tedesco" (German mercenaries) flags, the Parma regiment flag, the Swiss mercenaries flag and even militia flags from the 1700s to the mid-18th century. Some very nice flags!


I will make a nice and clean version tonight of the white field "Fanteria Veneta" flag

[Flikitos]

The second one is again really nice!

[wangrin]

German and Swiss units were only use during the war against Ottoman, early XVIIIth century.

I think we should use the "Italian" infantry colonel flag (St Marc Lion on white background) instead of oltramarine, german or swiss regiments.

Here are the plates from "Esercito Veneziano del'700" : L'ESERCITO VENETO nel '600 e nel '700


The problem is to find picture that can be used to create the flag.
They are often of bad quality and i'm not good enough to create a completely new picture.

Where your flags come from ?

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

From Russian websites and a Venician reenactment website. I've found that, by searching reenactors and regiment pictures, I find flags more easily. And most of the time it's accurate, because nobody is more dedicated and silly about historical accuracy than reenactors xD

Yes, I think too the flag should the the "bandiera de fanteria Veneta". Something like that maybe? I've tried my best to create a nice looking lion, but it's damn hard to find a good picture of the lion with a sword. (couldn't find one with his left leg set on the hill! And I had to make a sword and delete the bible he was holding)


Next, I will do the 1790s version (with the globe and without the hill and sea), the state flag (gonfalone) and the navy flag (red with a blue line and the lion) with nice lion frames.

[wangrin]

Some extracts from "L'Esercito Veneziano del '700", La Bandiera :

Early XVIIIth century :

Contrariamente a quanto si è creduto fino ad oggi, le bandiere di Fanteria veneziane erano già regolamentate all'inizio des secolo e cosi scriveva il Provveditore Generale in Terraferma Alessandro Molin nel 1703 :
"..ho deciso che le Truppe della Serenissima Repubblica portassero qualche segno distintivo hora che potendosi sovente incontrare nascerebbero degli inconvenienti, fatto riflesso che li Tedeschi portano il segno verde sul cappello, che li Francesi e Spagnoli l'hanno il bianco e rosso, ho creduto comandare che li Veneti portino il Turchino ch'é il colore ed il campo del quale devono essere le bandiere della Serenissima Repubblica, così che incontrati quei...non soggiacciano a qualche insulto."

Non abbiamo rinvenuto alcuna rappresentazione di queste bandiere ma riteniamo che, così per come avveniva per i Reggimenti esteri al servizio di Venezia, recassero da un lato il Leone di San Marco in oro e dall'altro lato il insegne del Colonnello Comandate.

Questa ipotesi potrbbe essere confermata da una bandiera esistente nei depositi della Collezione Guggenheim a Venezia.

Evolution throughout XVIIIth century :

Successivamente le Bandiere divennero bianche e il Leone di San Marco vi era raffigurato con la spada o con la croce in oro e senza nessuna altra decorazione.

Una di queste bandiere di Fanteria è conservata a Padova e, a meno che il colore non si sia alterato nel tempò, é bianca con il San Marco in oro ed ha un grosso orlo tutto intorno.
Il significato di questo orlo, presnete in altre bandiere, è controverso ma, a nostro avviso, portrbbe riferirsi al colore delle mostre del Reggimento di appartenenza che, fino al 1741 circa, erano rosse o turchine.

Successivamente l'orlo alla bandiera dovette essere eliminato e non compare infatti in quelle rappresentate dallo Zerbini a Santa Mauro, che sono certamente bianche, visto che nella lastra in bianco e nero il contrasto con le mostre turchine dei soldati é evidente.

So, I think that I will keep the actual white Venetian regimental flag and only change the Lion of San Marco with one from your pictures that show oltramarine regimental flags.

or


EDIT : I've update my "flag matrix"

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Thanks for the quotes, interesting! Well, you ninjaed me for the flag. But anyway, I edited the first post.

Edit: just saw your edit ^^ Your lion is facing the wrong side.
Will you use my other flags that improved the current graphics? No Pope's coat of arms doesn't make a big difference and after all theyweren't using any for the Papal States flag, just for the Pope's flag which is different. For the battle flag, I've made a St Peter and St Paul with Jesus cleaner version if you still want to use this one. Cheers, let me know.

[wangrin]

I've create a new "regimental" falg for Papal States :



I've also fix the Lion... :

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Cool. Also, sorry to be a pain in the a** again LOL, but is it possible to have cleaner flags? Like I said they were really clean and made of silk most of the time. It lowers the quality of the texture as well. What do you think? sorry ^_^'

Here the wip state flag for Venice. I've finally found the gonfaloni of Venice for the 18th century!

[wangrin]

If I create a clean flag, I though it look weird in game.

The new Venetian state flag look great.
Congratulations

[Flikitos]

Oh zut, I just put the venetian animation flag ingame...

This one look very cool, would it be possible Wangrin to applicate your layer on it, then I will put the ETF one for the animation flag?

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Glad I did,very nice flag, but more of a tapestry or Middle-Age flag than a modern state flag. It reflects very well the spirit of Venice, stuck in its old ways.

Updated first post: finished the Venice flag. Now for the navy.

I see what you mean, gonna look like a plain flat texture. I meant by cleaner, something less "dirty" (so we could say brighter) but still with flag frames and vector. I've found a good exemple of what I wanted to say:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=459735
The flags are "clean" and bright and yet they are looking very nice and realistic ingame.

PS: yeah I know i'm troublesome and silly about this "clean" flag idea LOL

[wangrin]

I use several layers to create a flag; from top to bottom :

• SHADOWS LAYER :
  
• WEFT LAYER :
  
• HERALDIC SYMBOLS LAYERS
  
  
• BACKGROUND COLOR :
  

About the "clean" aspect, the problem is that game engine has problem with white and other lightning color (yellow, etc.).
So, I've choose to represent "dirty" flag to darken or alter original colors.

Of course, the number of layers depend of flag complexity.

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Thanks for the layers! You do add them by "multiplicity" in the "fusion mask" onto the background layers?

Yeah, I know what you mean. We used to have the same problem with yellow and white flags in BF2, it was weird looking because of the shaders. It seems it's the weft layer that's very "dark" and give this overall dark/dirty aspect? Because if you check the vanilla flags, they are a bit dirty, but it's not that dark, the weft is not present(?).

I've finished the naval Venetian flag. It was fun modding the lion to feet the sword and the book (high-res picture in first post).


For the Venetian state flag, I tried to dl it with the blanks betweens the 6 tails/flames (?) but couldn't in PNG, so instead I went with white painted space. Means you gonna have to erase them.

What's next... I will go for Genova. It should be more easy for the state and navy flag lol ^^ but any intel on their regimental flag?

Edit: first hint, it's similar to the State flag. Here the Swiss infantry of Genoa
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/y...re/index-4.jpg

Finally, found a website with pictures of the esercito della Repubblica Genova:

[wangrin]

Did your flag are :

• 512x256 pixels for state flag
• 1024x512 pixels for naval flag

EDIT : I've reworked Venice naval flag using some of your pictures as a base