NTW: Kaunitz Project

[bloody bill]

The arty account of Friedland from reports also state that most of the round shot by the support 12lbers was at enemy arty to keep them from supporting the russian line. I will get you some first hand accounts from the Civil War if you would like as I have the complete records of the war of the Rebellion. I have seen them before its just work to find them as there are 70 volumes.

[Dave Strider]

Hey, uh...I downloaded it, put the file in my Data folder, and edited my user_script, but the mod doesn't work.

Like, literally, I played a battle - as instructed, France vs. Austria - and it was Vanilla. Nothing was different, except about halfway into the battle the game just randomly closes. No "Napoleon Total War has stopped working", no CTD notice, no nothing, it just blackscreens and closes.

[bloody bill]

@comrade use mod manager and you should have no issues.

[Kaunitz]

Bill, you only have to search through those 70 volumes if you really want to. I think I've got enough info to know how canister is supposed to work. However, as there is only 1 type of alternative ammunition for artillery in NTW, I can't recreate the difference between canister at longer ranges (up to 300 yards, with it's comparatively small, "buckshot" spread) and canister at close ranges (under 100 yards) with its bigger spread (double loaded?). I will have to come up with something in between those two modes of firing.

Also reminds me of the fact that we're usually severely under-gunned in our KP-games. Historically, we'd see much more guns than on our battle fields. This is of course, a result of the 20 slot-limitation. And it doesn't even help to increase the size of batteries (I've also thought of increasing the file spacing for guns a lot) because you can still only assign one target to the whole battery, which ruins the whole idea.

@Comrade Chernov:

Welcome!
Modmanager might help indeed. In case of doubt, deinstall all other mods (if using NTW3, "restore vanilla files"), you might even consider to put their pack files from the data folder somewhere else (movie packs are always active, even if you don't enable them via the script file), then verify game cache via steam, and then add the line to your script file ("restoring vanilla files" in NTW3 will delete your script file, you have to set up a new one). Report back if you still have troubles.

Is the...em..."durability" of units changed at all? Like, do units still lose men at the vanilla rate, or is it reduced according to the 4:1 scale?

Of course the casualty rate is adapted to the 4:1 scale as well. Units will behave completely differently from vanilla NTW/ETW.
You might want to take a look at my latest videos (multiplayer game versus cangry):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pyfG...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u01hk...ature=youtu.be

The casualty figures of this battle might give you an idea: According to the end screen, I've lost 267 out of 1642 deployed, and Cangry 250 out of 1702. This rate is comparatively low even for this mod . There were hardly any catastrophically successfull cavalry charges or pursuits and I've managed to get my beaten troops out of Cangrys reach quite unscratched. But I forgot to mention that Cangrys cuirassiers have broken my "square" (see "Panic" in video 2), which had French battalions in front and French cuirassiers in the back. Thus we need to add another 120 prisoners (the other 20 of the battalion were certainly slain), two captured banners, and also 4 captured 12pdrs to Cangrys statistic.

[Biggus Splenus]

This is my first preview on the progress for this mod. It will contain a lot of Megasalexandros work (the prussian models), plus some of my own work.

First, here is Megasalexandros' line infantry musketeers in the new NTW version of this mod


And his Grenadiers as well


Some of you may be aware that Megasalexandros didn't have a Chasseur (Jager) model, so I've started to make my own


If anyone can see an issue with my model, please point is out. Also, if someone could supply me with a uniform plate or some kind of source on the officer of this unit, that would be great.

Last thing, is Megasalexandros' hussar


I have also created a saddle cloth specific to this unit, just for some extra visual detail

If everyone could give their feedback on this, that would be great

EDIT: I have noticed that the Chasseur's hat shouldn't have a white lace on top, and I will fix that. It should also have a olive green cockade on the hat, but I don't think that is possible with the mesh

EDIT AGAIN: I did add the olive green cockade to the Chasseurs tricorns

[mAIOR]

Wow. Been away for the weekend with no computer and I come back to find that so much has changed that's not nice at all. I was expecting you'd all wait till I got back... shame... :p
Still, it's a nice trade off. You playing computer games me eating lots of quality food and having sex... ^^


On a serious note, Kaunitz, regarding cavalry:
I'll ask JaM ASAP the values he used for cavalry. Don't know if you tried NER (I have it for campaigns) but cavalry there works. It's not artillery prone and he uses regiment size units. It has to do with the hitbox value and the accuracy of cavalry. Also, morale needs a complete overall for balance. I'd like to test it a bit further as I really want to see more battalions on the field especially on 1vs1. tell you what, let me and Filip work around bigger cavalry and then give you the results of our labour

Routing horses:
iirc, it's possible to remove them but don't quote me on it.

Artillery:
See my thread in JaM's forum. I'm posting a lot of facts there. I have to update it but currently, don't really have the time. Still a lot of info is there. regarding actual engagements during Napoleonic times. The conclusion I arrived is that cannister is not that effective in killing terms and is much more of a morale based weapon. The biggest artillery killer was roundshot vs columns. An example that springs to mind is at Austerlitz when 3 battalions of Lannes Division suffered 400 casualties in 3 minutes by 40 Russian guns. That's some of the most deadly examples available and still, it's just not that much. it's 3 soldies killed per gun per minute and if you consider the saturation of cannister caused by 40 guns firing, less guns would probably cause even less casualties. for example, at Smolensk, three french squares were under fire for 3 hours by 12 Russian guns and suffered 119 casualties during those three hours.

Very interesting information bloody bill it's always nice to read battle accounts.

regarding the video: nice

regarding the models: sweet

Btw, one can use NTW3 maps without the rest of the mod. Don't know if you tried it.




Cheers...

[Andre J. Jassoch]

I have to repeat myself.The sounds are brilliant.Best realistic i have ever heard.Also the battle machanism is genial.Is there someone who can implement this into the campaign?Please!!!

[Biggus Splenus]

Almost ready for my next preview on Prussia, just waiting for a bit more feedback

[mAIOR]

BTW, kaunitz, for this kind of battles with double the cavalry squadrons, I suggest creating a unit called Division artillery with 4 or 5 guns. I'd suggest giving them a high horizontal dispersion so that when you fire at an area the effect is more of a salvo to the area of the battlefield other than aimed at single battalion fire. Maybe switching to cannister should lower this value. Do you think it's feasible?
Also, after this secound battle, what was your opinion of double squadron cavalry? And the low casualties were probably due to the fact that you decided to withdraw your army so soon. With those kinds of numbers you were still battle-worthy

One interesting idea I'd like to experiment with further down is to create veteran line units to do some sort of campaign. Lot of work but with a couple of players on each side, lot's of fun too.




Cheers...

[Biggus Splenus]

create veteran line units to do some sort of campaign

I know I'm not Kaunitz but I'm curious as to what you actually mean by this???

[Whaler99]

excellent work Splenyi, can you put NTW faces on these models (more variety)

[mAIOR]

well, it'd be fun to get an actual map, draw provinces represent armies and do battle through several maps with certain objectives. Veteran line would represent line infantry that has been through a lot. It'd also make you want to keep them back a bit more to minimise losses and loosing them could be catastrophic to your nation. Just a thought



Cheers...

[Biggus Splenus]

I wish we could, but no I hate ETW faces too

[Whaler99]

what about taking the moustache off of some units and not have all units with them, I'm sorry but thats my only beef on these units Mega made, they are excellent.

I'm not sure if the animation was the same between ETW and NTW units, but by bringing ETW models, is there any problems on how they react in the NTW game?

On artillery, probably already read this stuff, but has good accounts from soldier, not only in the Napolean era, but prior coming under fire by artillery and the devastion it caused

http://www.wtj.com/articles/napart/

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/artillery_tactics.htm

[bloody bill]

@ Kaunitz, with the arty I think spreading the battery out would be an excellent idea. This is the 7yw so if you think canister is good than thats good enough for me as the Civil war and Napoleonic is my area's of knowledge.

I do think to make cav at the squadron level and maybe a Reserve cav unit at the Regiment maybe.
Also with cav I had two situations come up against AI. Both times Exghausted heavy cav was charged by fresh light cav and the heavies decimated the light cav. I dont think this should happen. I believe it was Lasalle or Murat not sure which that stated "The most elite cav if blown is more useless than untrained cav, and can be destroyed by it".

@Splenyi, Units look amazing cannot wait to march these fellas off to war.

[mAIOR]

@bloody bill, did this situations happened on a frontal assault? if so, armoured cavalry would stand a very good chance of actually defeating (even when disorganised) any sort of light cavalry except maybe the more elite ones. Sabers were pretty much useless vs armour and a forward charge could actually be defended quite well. Also, were the heavies static or moving, if they were static, I remember some action when Napoleons Cuirassers managed to defeat austrian light cavalry (iirc) by absorbing the charge and then counter attacking. if they were moving and disorganised, that's another balance that needs to be struck. Especially since light cavalry doesn't have their sizes doubled.



Cheers...

[bloody bill]

@Maior, I would have to go with Lasalle and Murat on how blown cavalry are pretty useless against enemy. If your horse it exghausted and cannot react then you are an armored target that cannot move. Prussian militia cav defeated French cuirass in 1813 because the French heavies were blown and the Prussian cav swirled all around them and chopped them up.

As for my situation:
First time I caught hvy cav in flank moving away from me and I lost. Second time I had two fresh light cav. I charged a stationary hvy one at the fron the other at the side. Both of mine routed.

In my experience its all about morale and fatigue, You can be the most elite unit there is but if your exghausted against fresh your elite status does not help out much if any. Look at all the reports of hvy aromed knights that were exghausted and butchered by light fresh peasent troops, same concept.

[Dave Strider]

Bill, you only have to search through those 70 volumes if you really want to. I think I've got enough info to know how canister is supposed to work. However, as there is only 1 type of alternative ammunition for artillery in NTW, I can't recreate the difference between canister at longer ranges (up to 300 yards, with it's comparatively small, "buckshot" spread) and canister at close ranges (under 100 yards) with its bigger spread (double loaded?). I will have to come up with something in between those two modes of firing.

Also reminds me of the fact that we're usually severely under-gunned in our KP-games. Historically, we'd see much more guns than on our battle fields. This is of course, a result of the 20 slot-limitation. And it doesn't even help to increase the size of batteries (I've also thought of increasing the file spacing for guns a lot) because you can still only assign one target to the whole battery, which ruins the whole idea.

@Comrade Chernov:

Welcome!
Modmanager might help indeed. In case of doubt, deinstall all other mods (if using NTW3, "restore vanilla files"), you might even consider to put their pack files from the data folder somewhere else (movie packs are always active, even if you don't enable them via the script file), then verify game cache via steam, and then add the line to your script file ("restoring vanilla files" in NTW3 will delete your script file, you have to set up a new one). Report back if you still have troubles.



Of course the casualty rate is adapted to the 4:1 scale as well. Units will behave completely differently from vanilla NTW/ETW.
You might want to take a look at my latest videos (multiplayer game versus cangry):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pyfG...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u01hk...ature=youtu.be

The casualty figures of this battle might give you an idea: According to the end screen, I've lost 267 out of 1642 deployed, and Cangry 250 out of 1702. This rate is comparatively low even for this mod . There were hardly any catastrophically successfull cavalry charges or pursuits and I've managed to get my beaten troops out of Cangrys reach quite unscratched. But I forgot to mention that Cangrys cuirassiers have broken my "square" (see "Panic" in video 2), which had French battalions in front and French cuirassiers in the back. Thus we need to add another 120 prisoners (the other 20 of the battalion were certainly slain), two captured banners, and also 4 captured 12pdrs to Cangrys statistic.

I must admit, I am a bit embarassed...I don't know what Modmanager is...Could you kindly point me in the right direction?

[bloody bill]

@ comrade, here you go buddy any questions feel free to ask.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=344757

[mAIOR]

Oui, lassale and Murat should know better however, it wouldn't be impossible especially since light cavalry then was different than in Napoleons time. They had looser formations and were not used in the same situations. What you say is worrying since they were moving and caught on flank. which should be dreadful for the defenders. thing is, with double squadrons but not double light cavalry makes heavy cavalry outnumber light cavalry.



Cheers...