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Thread: DoM Gameplay Mechanics and Features Overview (upd: 24/12/2013)

  1. #81
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Those spearmen above? Certainly not low-tier. Do they look low-tier?

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    Wouldn’t Cultic reforms in some cases make some factions in fact weaker? Good example would be Harad because it would lose Mumakils. Dunland, on the contrary would become more powerful. I’m wondering how that would affect the balance of the game. Second, I’m hoping that Dunland, Rhun and Harad will not have tendency to go cultic because that would make factions almost the same – uniqueness are gone, and we would have to fight same units. Third thing is how would the said factions going cultic affect relations with other cultic factions (namely Adunabar)? Would they still fight each other, or they could make permanent alliances? When I think about it, alliances don’t have sense because faction objectives would be obstacles...
    Regarding the Dwarves I meant in mannish (conquered) settlements, my bad. But, you have answered my question – they would recruit mercenaries. I guess then that they could retrain them too. So, they could not recruit local units as mannish factions do?

    Edit: @ Blatta Optima Maxima
    They are (semi-)elite. You can see other cultic units here (lower ranking units too):
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...63#post9551263
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 06, 2012 at 01:25 PM.





  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Wouldn’t Cultic reforms in some cases make some factions in fact weaker? Good example would be Harad because it would lose Mumakils. Dunland, on the contrary would become more powerful. I’m wondering how that would affect the balance of the game.
    Depends. Mumakil are hard to get and very expensive, even if they are quite good, so they are not the best unit in-game (imo). The Cult provides an alternative - depending on your play style, it can make the same faction better or worse. Dunland, for example depends on large, cheap units normally. Some players might not like the more expensive, smaller (but more... durable) Cult units, others might do.

    Second, I’m hoping that Dunland, Rhun and Harad will not have tendency to go cultic because that would make factions almost the same – uniqueness are gone, and we would have to fight same units.
    The whole idea behind the Cult is that it is a force to be reckoned, a threat, *the new shadow*. It wants to expand and dominate... The 'threat' feels greater when half the world is following its ways... A gripe with TNS is that the Cult felt rather weak and inconsequential.
    That said, factions are not hard-wired to go either way. AI in RTW is set to follow whatever the prevailing religion in a province is (if it can). So, if Harad conquers a cultic province, it is likely it will build/keep a cultic temple there. And if half or more its provinces are like that, the Cult will dominate the faction and you'll get the cultic roster. I thinks it's quite realistic.

    Third thing is how would the said factions going cultic affect relations with other cultic factions (namely Adunabar)? Would they still fight each other, or they could make permanent alliances? When I think about it, alliances don’t have sense because faction objectives would be obstacles...
    No, alliances don't change. In RTW factions don't have official alignments, so the AI doesn't know if another faction is also cultic etc.

    Regarding the Dwarves I meant in mannish (conquered) settlements, my bad. But, you have answered my question – they would recruit mercenaries. I guess then that they could retrain them too. So, they could not recruit local units as mannish factions do?
    They don't get local levies, no.

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Sorry, I’m becoming little annoying, but another thing crossed my mind. You have said that “Adunabar, Harad, Rhun and Dunland have the option to build cultic temples”. What about Khand, Harondor and Far Harad? Are they immune to cultic expansion or reason for their secession is the Cultic influence in Harad and refusal of cultic ways of former?

    Not bad, The New Shadow is real threat now. The thing that concerns me is that it seems to me, from this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    That said, factions are not hard-wired to go either way. AI in RTW is set to follow whatever the prevailing religion in a province is (if it can). So, if Harad conquers a cultic province, it is likely it will build/keep a cultic temple there. And if half or more its provinces are like that, the Cult will dominate the faction and you'll get the cultic roster. I thinks it's quite realistic.
    that even RK, or Rohan, or any human faction could become Cultic if it conquers enough cultic territory, and don’t convert it. It seems to me that even player playing e.g. Elves could become cultic (how fun is that ) if it conquers bunch of Adunabar territory, and don’t convert them.
    Or maybe I get something wrong...
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 06, 2012 at 02:21 PM.





  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Sorry, I’m becoming little annoying, but another thing crossed my mind. You have said that “Adunabar, Harad, Rhun and Dunland have the option to build cultic temples”. What about Khand, Harondor and Far Harad? Are they immune to cultic expansion or reason for their secession is the Cultic influence in Harad and refusal of cultic ways of former?
    1. there is no secession, they aren't factions that broke-off a 'parent' faction. They are simply less powerful factions.
    2. The idea is that their people simply didn't buy into the Cult - probably because they are smaller, more homogeneous factions, with stronger desire to stay true to their traditions etc.

    Not bad, The New Shadow is real threat now. The thing that concerns me is that it seems to me, from this:

    that even RK, or Rohan, or any human faction could become Cultic if it conquers enough cultic territory, and don’t convert it. It seems to me that even player playing e.g. Elves could become cultic (how fun is that ) if it conquers bunch of Adunabar territory, and don’t convert them.
    Or maybe I get something wrong...
    The population of a province might be cultic, but the faction owning it is not. Yes, much of the kingdom would follow the cultic ways (and cause unrest), assuming RK conquered Mordor, but the leadership wouldn't espouse the alignment and allow it to influence their recruitment and whatnot. That's the difference.

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Elves could become cultic (how fun is that ) if it conquers bunch of Adunabar territory, and don’t convert them.
    mmmmm.... drows are on the way

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Well, ok. I didn’t understand you right. I thought that the “thing” that triggers Cultic Dominance is the number of the settlements that the faction owns and that majority must be cultic. That could in theory make any faction cultic. But, I was obviously wrong because city will not be registered as cultic when it is conquered by the “non-cultic ways” following faction.
    Enough for today... Thank you for your time and answers. Good night.





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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Wouldn’t Cultic reforms in some cases make some factions in fact weaker? Good example would be Harad because it would lose Mumakils.
    Who knows?
    Maybe Herúmor knows about some secret genetical experiments and when Harad goes cultic they'll get fire-breathing and poison-farting Mûmakil?
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Well, ok. I didn’t understand you right. I thought that the “thing” that triggers Cultic Dominance is the number of the settlements that the faction owns and that majority must be cultic. That could in theory make any faction cultic. But, I was obviously wrong because city will not be registered as cultic when it is conquered by the “non-cultic ways” following faction.
    Enough for today... Thank you for your time and answers. Good night.
    To put it more clearly: a faction becomes cultic when its leaderhip decides to 'harness' the influence of the Cult in half or more of its settlements. RK, for example, cannot do the harnessing, because they don't have cultic temples. So, yes, you can have a faction whose population is predominantly cultic, but without a way to absorb that cultic influence into the faction and put it to use, that population will be just a cause of trouble.

    I hope that makes more sense.

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    ... I hope that makes more sense.
    Of course, crystal clear.

    One last thing about the matter. Could the faction going cultic be reversed? If do, could it happen that if the percentage of cultic population/provincies is around the 50-50 % player/faction could experience rather frequent transits from cultic and non-cultic roster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    Who knows?
    Maybe Herúmor knows about some secret genetical experiments and when Harad goes cultic they'll get fire-breathing and poison-farting Mûmakil?
    You, sir, speak the words of wisdom. Why abandon Mumakil warfare if you could even improve it. Unless, despicable cultic ways involve total extinction of these magnificent beasts (extensive ivory trade – quick call PETA!)...

    Seriously, Dunland, Rhun and Harad could have one or two versions of their own cultic units to represent them as a people even if they are cultic. For Dunland I could think of some sort of cultic berserkers, or maybe other more tribal-looking unit. Rhun could keep their wains (maybe in some cultic, more sinister looking form) and maybe one cultic- barbarian unit, just to point out that becoming cultic (and with it professionalization of their armies) didn’t make all their people abandon their ways completely. Harad? Mumakil with rocket lun..., I mean Cultic form of it, of course. Maybe some eastern looking cultic unit too because I doubt they would reject their former equipment completely. I know that you have told me that you are short on model slots, but that would be only 6 or less new units. In fact it would be only already existing units changed to fit their cultic ways. That way these factions would keep their uniqueness. Only my humble opinions...

    How would it look like when non-mannish faction occupies non-mannish faction territory? (e.c. Dwarwes occupies Shire).Would they have to expel non- manish inhabitants (and immigrate humans), unless they could not recruit any units in it? Wouldn’t non-mannish faction defend themselves from foreign assault even if they would be under rule of other non-manish faction?

    Edit 1:

    Idea, probably bad but still: Zero movement points home guards?

    I get why Khand, Harondor and Far Harad would dismiss cultic ways. The thing I am curious about is that you said that there was no secession. I watched again the First Dev. Diary and it says:
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone
    However, the cult's agents were not only in work in Gondor. In Harad they stirred up a revolt that led to Umbar falling once more into the hands of the Empire of Harad. Asailed by Corsair fleets the Reunited Kingdom lost many of its ships and was compelled to pull many of its land forces from Arnor to protect its southern fiefs. In the chaos the contested lands of Harandor broke away and declared their own sovereignty.
    It sounds to me that there were some revolt after all.

    I have an impression that the DOM will be sequel to TNS in story too. Here is the map:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Of course Khand (1) didn’t secede because it was independent before. Hmm, Harondor (2) is more difficult because part of it was independent and part was occupied by Harad. So it could be that part of Harad was either occupied/freed by the north Harondor (then rebels), or southern Harondor rebelled, and formed a new state. Far Harad (3) to me seems as a product of a rebellion. To me it is clearly shown that it somehow become independent from Harad (in TNS it was part of it).

    Edit 2:

    Did you think of something about Rammas Echor? I would really like to see it, even only as the model on the campaign map. The map is perfect, only the Outer Wall is missing, and that is pity in my opinion. Of course, you could argue that what’s point of having them if they wouldn’t be of any use (you said that implementation on the battle map is impossible). I don’t know is it a good idea, but maybe I have thought of something. Would it be possible to have it as a model on a campaign map, and then “simulate” it as a hindrance for an enemy invading force? When enemy force cross into the Pellenor region, enemy force could be deprived of some movement points, (70-85 %) thus simulating the breaching of Rammas. What do you think?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Oh, text wall! If I would only show such interest for my studying...
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 08, 2012 at 05:49 AM.





  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Of course, crystal clear.

    One last thing about the matter. Could the faction going cultic be reversed? If do, could it happen that if the percentage of cultic population/provincies is around the 50-50 % player/faction could experience rather frequent transits from cultic and non-cultic roster?
    Yes, the 'reforms' are reversible. And yes, it's possible to have frequents transits from one state to the other, but it's highly unlikely. That would happen regardless of the ratio threshold btw.


    Seriously, Dunland, Rhun and Harad could have one or two versions of their own cultic units to represent them as a people even if they are cultic. For Dunland I could think of some sort of cultic berserkers, or maybe other more tribal-looking unit. Rhun could keep their wains (maybe in some cultic, more sinister looking form) and maybe one cultic- barbarian unit, just to point out that becoming cultic (and with it professionalization of their armies) didn’t make all their people abandon their ways completely. Harad? Mumakil with rocket lun..., I mean Cultic form of it, of course. Maybe some eastern looking cultic unit too because I doubt they would reject their former equipment completely. I know that you have told me that you are short on model slots, but that would be only 6 or less new units. In fact it would be only already existing units changed to fit their cultic ways. That way these factions would keep their uniqueness. Only my humble opinions...
    So, you'd have to build cultic temples in half your provinces just to get access to 1 or 2 new units? I think it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
    I am still trying to think of ways to improve the situation without making Eorl and Count re-do already finished work, but it isn't as simple as coming up with a 'brilliant new idea'.

    How would it look like when non-mannish faction occupies non-mannish faction territory? (e.c. Dwarwes occupies Shire).Would they have to expel non- manish inhabitants (and immigrate humans), unless they could not recruit any units in it?
    Yes, Dwarves would need to bring in human settlers if they took the Shire, otherwise they'd have no recruitment.
    Wouldn’t non-mannish faction defend themselves from foreign assault even if they would be under rule of other non-manish faction?
    Do you mean, would the Hobbits resist the influx of mannish settlers? Sure they would, but they have just been defeated and the province's main settlement hold by their masters, they can't do anything. What they can do is first successfully revolt (ie, settlement goes back to the Shire faction) and then drive away the settlers (ie, the 'upgrade' to mannish populace is disrupted). That's already the case...



    Idea, probably bad but still: Zero movement points home guards?
    That would only apply to recruitable generals, which the AI does not recruit, for some reason.

    I get why Khand, Harondor and Far Harad would dismiss cultic ways. The thing I am curious about is that you said that there was no secession. I watched again the First Dev. Diary and it says:

    It sounds to me that there were some revolt after all.

    I have an impression that the DOM will be sequel to TNS in story too. Here is the map:

    Of course Khand (1) didn’t secede because it was independent before. Hmm, Harondor (2) is more difficult because part of it was independent and part was occupied by Harad. So it could be that part of Harad was either occupied/freed by the north Harondor (then rebels), or southern Harondor rebelled, and formed a new state. Far Harad (3) to me seems as a product of a rebellion. To me it is clearly shown that it somehow become independent from Harad (in TNS it was part of it).
    DoM isn't supposed to blindly follow TNS. It essentially suggests a different, revised backstory (since we now have factions we hadn't previously though of) so there's no point trying to reconcile every difference between TNS and DoM. Playing DoM you should assume only the 'basics' mentioned in TNS, FE or CI continue to be true. Harondor was the result of a revolt (which actually happened before TNS' time), but Far Harad and Khand were "always there", even if we didn't mention them in TNS.

    Edit 2:

    Did you think of something about Rammas Echor? I would really like to see it, even only as the model on the campaign map. The map is perfect, only the Outer Wall is missing, and that is pity in my opinion. Of course, you could argue that what’s point of having them if they wouldn’t be of any use (you said that implementation on the battle map is impossible). I don’t know is it a good idea, but maybe I have thought of something. Would it be possible to have it as a model on a campaign map, and then “simulate” it as a hindrance for an enemy invading force? When enemy force cross into the Pellenor region, enemy force could be deprived of some movement points, (70-85 %) thus simulating the breaching of Rammas. What do you think?
    The only way to slow armies down is by changing the ground-type of some tiles and that would both not do justice to the defences of the rammas and ruin the look of the map.
    Last edited by Aradan; June 09, 2013 at 05:50 PM.

  12. #92
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    First of all, I want to point out that that I am not pushing my ideas, or want them in the game at all costs. I thought that some of them could give you some ideas for the mod, regardless of the matter. You of course, could find some of them interesting and eventually accept it, or completely dismiss it, your choice. I understand that I have given myself more freedom that it is appropriate (put my nose where it shouldn’t go), and for that I apologise. Most of my ideas were idiotic anyway because of my limited knowledge of the matter (moding and game functioning).

    So, you'd have to build cultic temples in half your provinces just to get access to 1 or 2 new units? I think it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
    I am still trying to think of ways to improve the situation without making Eorl and Count re-do already finished work, but it isn't as simple as coming up with a 'brilliant new idea'.
    Yes, the idea was really “brilliant” (read stupid), but I didn’t had in mind only giving the few cultic versions of the units to the faction (then there would be no point in going cultic), but give them as addition to cultic roster, and make them only trainable for specific faction via already existing unique buildings (e.g. Mumakil Training Grounds, Hillman Fort). That way faction could in theory have unique cultic units. Only to tell what I really meant in my previous post. The idea probably still stays stupid...

    Do you mean, would the Hobbits resist the influx of mannish settlers? Sure they would, but they have just been defeated and the province's main settlement hold by their masters, they can't do anything. What they can do is first successfully revolt (ie, settlement goes back to the Shire faction) and then drive away the settlers (ie, the 'upgrade' to mannish populace is disrupted). That's already the case...
    No, I meant, if non-mannish faction decides to keep the non-mannish inhabitants, and manage to stabilize it (bring order, and maybe earn trust of the people) wouldn’t they defend their homes from invasion from the third side? Now, it seems that they would stand idle, and watch their overlords defend their territory (they are unrecruitable by other faction). Thus came my impracticable idea about home guard units (non-manish). I’m explaining what I originally meant. It is still impossible...

    DoM isn't supposed to blindly follow TNS. It essentially suggests a different, revised backstory (since we now have factions we hadn't previously though of) so there's no point trying to reconcile every difference between TNS and DoM. Playing DoM you should assume only the 'basics' mentioned in TNS, FE or CI continue to be true. Harondor was the result of a revolt (which actually happened before TNS' time), but Far Harad and Khand were "always there", even if we didn't mention them in TNS.
    Yes, of course, you can always experiment, change things, and make them better.

    The only way to slow armies down is by changing the ground-type of some tiles and that would both not do justice to the defences of the rammas and ruin the look of the map.
    Well, I originally had in mind giving an enemy general trait that would slow it down (similar to traits regarding the supplies), but I see that wouldn’t work completely too. Faction could attack Minas Tirith without general.


    My last suggestion (don’t worry, not megalomaniac idea as those before ): RK’s general could get negative trait when crossing into Shire’s territory because Aragorn II Elessar forbid humans crossing into it. I assume it would be respected still into the timeframe of the mod.


    From now on I will try to refrain myself from giving “suggestions” because they are clearly just hindrance and annoyance. I have crossed the line. What I should is to try to implement my stupid ideas myself and see how impossible they are, and how much dedication is needed to implement them and make finished mod. And, for no gain whatsoever. ..Everything you can expect is gratitude (that you have from me), and sometimes neither that (sometimes you get annoying fans, and complaints). Sorry again if I have unnerved you .





  13. #93
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    Yes, the idea was really “brilliant” (read stupid), but I didn’t had in mind only giving the few cultic versions of the units to the faction (then there would be no point in going cultic), but give them as addition to cultic roster, and make them only trainable for specific faction via already existing unique buildings (e.g. Mumakil Training Grounds, Hillman Fort). That way faction could in theory have unique cultic units. Only to tell what I really meant in my previous post. The idea probably still stays stupid...
    I like the idea of e.g. Dunland maintaining their 'barbaric' ways even when converted to the Cult. Ofc they should gain a great portion of the cultic units, maybe not gaining access to the very best, but instead have Cultic Hillmen Warriors or Cultic Axes of the Wulf. It seems just weird if the Wild Men of the Hills suddenly march in rank and file wearing mail hauberks when they wore leather before. Apart from the fact that they would have to acquire the skills demanded to produce such things, I do not even know if there's a lot of ore available in Dunland.
    Harad OTOH would have a full conversion, being way more advanced already.

    However, this requires new textures and you cannot assign two textures to one unit used by the same faction and tie the usage of the texture to the cultic reforms. You'd have to create a complete new unit that essentially is the old unit with a different texture. And that clearly is a waste of slots.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    First of all, I want to point out that that I am not pushing my ideas, or want them in the game at all costs. I thought that some of them could give you some ideas for the mod, regardless of the matter. You of course, could find some of them interesting and eventually accept it, or completely dismiss it, your choice. I understand that I have given myself more freedom that it is appropriate (put my nose where it shouldn’t go), and for that I apologise. Most of my ideas were idiotic anyway because of my limited knowledge of the matter (moding and game functioning).
    [...]
    From now on I will try to refrain myself from giving “suggestions” because they are clearly just hindrance and annoyance. I have crossed the line. What I should is to try to implement my stupid ideas myself and see how impossible they are, and how much dedication is needed to implement them and make finished mod. And, for no gain whatsoever. ..Everything you can expect is gratitude (that you have from me), and sometimes neither that (sometimes you get annoying fans, and complaints). Sorry again if I have unnerved you .
    I do not mind suggestions and comments at all. How will I know what people want to see in the mod if nobody suggests stuff or gives feedback...
    Did I seem angry with my last post? If so, it wasn't my intention.

    Yes, the idea was really “brilliant” (read stupid), but I didn’t had in mind only giving the few cultic versions of the units to the faction (then there would be no point in going cultic), but give them as addition to cultic roster, and make them only trainable for specific faction via already existing unique buildings (e.g. Mumakil Training Grounds, Hillman Fort). That way faction could in theory have unique cultic units. Only to tell what I really meant in my previous post. The idea probably still stays stupid...
    An idea (at some point, because I keep having a different one every 5 minutes) was that only the high-tier units of a faction (except Adunabar) would convert to cultic, so that the core troops would still be representative of the faction. However that creates certain issues, since high-tier units are not available in every province (eg in outlands, where factional recruitment kicks in at tier-3, so the best factional units are tier-2, assuming a military-oriented province that can build all 'barracks' levels). That means cultic recruitment would never become useful in those settlements.

    A solution (not sure if it's completely workable, haven't tried it yet) would be making cultic levies available in those provinces, which would mean recruitment goes like that:
    homelands: standard tier 1, standard tier 2, cultic tier 3, cultic tier 4
    fiefdoms: cultic levy tier 1, standard tier 1, standard tier 2, cultic tier 3
    outlands: cultic levy tier 0, cultic levy tier 1, standard tier 1, standard tier 2

    Does that seem confusing? Is it a better solution than swapping all the faction units?


    No, I meant, if non-mannish faction decides to keep the non-mannish inhabitants, and manage to stabilize it (bring order, and maybe earn trust of the people) wouldn’t they defend their homes from invasion from the third side? Now, it seems that they would stand idle, and watch their overlords defend their territory (they are unrecruitable by other faction). Thus came my impracticable idea about home guard units (non-manish). I’m explaining what I originally meant. It is still impossible...
    That would mean having Hobbits recruitable by, say, Dwarves or Elves. What if Dwarves have occupied and pacified the Shire, but there are still Hobbits in Westmarch or Buckland? Would the Shire Hobbits fight for Dwarves while they are still at war with their kin? Doubt it.


    My last suggestion (don’t worry, not megalomaniac idea as those before ): RK’s general could get negative trait when crossing into Shire’s territory because Aragorn II Elessar forbid humans crossing into it. I assume it would be respected still into the timeframe of the mod.
    RK and the Shire start as allies, which grants them mutual military access. So, it might be a bit counter-intuitive if the player sees that he ahs permission to march through the Shire and then gets penalised for doing so.
    It's a thought though, as it creates an extra 'moral' restriction for the RK player, so it's not impossible it finds its way into the mod. But it will have to be a relatively minor thing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Thangaror View Post
    I like the idea of e.g. Dunland maintaining their 'barbaric' ways even when converted to the Cult. Ofc they should gain a great portion of the cultic units, maybe not gaining access to the very best, but instead have Cultic Hillmen Warriors or Cultic Axes of the Wulf. It seems just weird if the Wild Men of the Hills suddenly march in rank and file wearing mail hauberks when they wore leather before. Apart from the fact that they would have to acquire the skills demanded to produce such things, I do not even know if there's a lot of ore available in Dunland.
    Harad OTOH would have a full conversion, being way more advanced already.

    However, this requires new textures and you cannot assign two textures to one unit used by the same faction and tie the usage of the texture to the cultic reforms. You'd have to create a complete new unit that essentially is the old unit with a different texture. And that clearly is a waste of slots.
    See suggestion above. I'm not 100/100 that it's feasible atm, but some feedback wouldn't hurt.

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    I do not mind suggestions and comments at all. How will I know what people want to see in the mod if nobody suggests stuff or gives feedback...
    Did I seem angry with my last post? If so, it wasn't my intention.
    Well, yes, your need feedback, but my suggestions after second reading seemed quite intrusive and maybe rude and that wasn’t my intention. Secondly, they were in fact impracticable, so it is to me to better think about my suggestions and refrain from giving them if they are plain useless. No, you didn’t seem angry in your last post; I just assumed that you could be a little unnerved by my constant nagging (hint to me was that anyone could come up with “brilliant new idea” and be pushy/force you to re-do your finished work, what wasn’t my intention at all).

    An idea...
    ...Does that seem confusing? Is it a better solution than swapping all the faction units?
    No, not confusing at all. I actually like the idea.

    That would mean having Hobbits recruitable by, say, Dwarves or Elves. What if Dwarves have occupied and pacified the Shire, but there are still Hobbits in Westmarch or Buckland? Would the Shire Hobbits fight for Dwarves while they are still at war with their kin? Doubt it.
    I didn’t express my previous idea completely. What if they would be completely conquered (and pacified)? Having them unrecruitable would have perfectly sense too because they would seek their independence (and refuse to fight for conquerors) as long as they maintain their sovereignty somewhere else. After they are conquered everywhere (and some time passing) they could reconcile with "their fate" (what they almost did in TLOTR until Frodo; Sam and Merry stirred up a rebellion). Essentially, what I meant is that if the Hobbit faction is destroyed, their owning faction could train some Hobbiten Home Guards with zero-movement points. That way Hobbits could not fight Hobbits (they couldn’t move outside the cities), but could defend themselves from foreign incursion. As you said, that could be implemented only via recruitable bodyguards, but the idea is still quite lacking. Would such units be of any worth? Hobbiten bodyguards could be given some law bonuses tough, because they simulate some illusion of independence if there is some Hobbiten "general"? And I said that I will not harass you with crazy ideas... I still hope that it makes some sense.

    Edit: After reading again what I have scrabbled, I see that it doesn’t have sense. Hobbits as a faction could live on even without a settlement, and I guess there is no game mechanism that would function as e.g.: Hobbit faction destroyed -> allow Hobbiten Home Guards recruitment -> for Hobbiten ex-territories; without scripting.
    Last edited by Jagmodo; May 09, 2012 at 08:32 AM.





  16. #96
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    No, not confusing at all. I actually like the idea.
    Well, if it's possible, I'll give it a shot.

    Edit: After reading again what I have scrabbled, I see that it doesn’t have sense. Hobbits as a faction could live on even without a settlement, and I guess there is no game mechanism that would function as e.g.: Hobbit faction destroyed -> allow Hobbiten Home Guards recruitment -> for Hobbiten ex-territories; without scripting.
    More or less impossible, yes. And even if it was possible, the AI would not use those units, so it would be a player-only feature, aka a bonus to the player.

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    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post

    A solution (not sure if it's completely workable, haven't tried it yet) would be making cultic levies available in those provinces, which would mean recruitment goes like that:
    homelands: standard tier 1, standard tier 2, cultic tier 3, cultic tier 4
    fiefdoms: cultic levy tier 1, standard tier 1, standard tier 2, cultic tier 3
    outlands: cultic levy tier 0, cultic levy tier 1, standard tier 1, standard tier 2

    Does that seem confusing? Is it a better solution than swapping all the faction units?
    Nope, not confusing, quite reasonable.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    A solution (not sure if it's completely workable, haven't tried it yet) would be making cultic levies available in those provinces, which would mean recruitment goes like that:
    homelands: standard tier 1, standard tier 2, cultic tier 3, cultic tier 4
    fiefdoms: cultic levy tier 1, standard tier 1, standard tier 2, cultic tier 3
    outlands: cultic levy tier 0, cultic levy tier 1, standard tier 1, standard tier 2

    Does that seem confusing? Is it a better solution than swapping all the faction units?
    I also like this idea. Swithing too many factions to cultic would remove all uniqueness from factions, and it's so far the only feature of DoM I don't like. Fighting clone factions would be pretty boring. Besides, it maked sense for Adunabar to switch to advanced cultic roster, it's a seccesionist state of highly advanced RK, and a place where the New Shadow started - and it's also a country in the making, it's natural for them to try to reform it's army (since RK did suffer defeats in near past).

    Giving Dunland or Rhun all those heavily armored units doesn't make much sense. Where would all those smiths and ore come from? Not to mention complete makeover of their way of fighting.

    EDIT - Is it possible to just add high tier cultic units to regular faction roster? That way a player can get rewarded for switch to cultic, faction identity would be preserved, it's armies strengthened a bit (which would cultist naturally try to achieve), and it's completely plausible for a cult to organize it's elite guard units, even with limited resources of poorer factions.

    Adunabar would keep full cultist roster, of course.
    Last edited by Stark1; May 09, 2012 at 09:42 AM.

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    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stark1 View Post
    Is it possible to just add high tier cultic units to regular faction roster? That way a player can get rewarded for switch to cultic, faction identity would be preserved, it's armies strengthened a bit (which would cultist naturally try to achieve), and it's completely plausible for a cult to organize it's elite guard units, even with limited resources of poorer factions.
    Would the elite cultic units replace the original ones?

    Just adding cultic elites would make the Cult 'visible' only in military-oriented homeland and fiefdom provinces, which will probably not be that many. I think I'd like the Cult's presence to be more... felt.

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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    Would the elite cultic units replace the original ones?

    Just adding cultic elites would make the Cult 'visible' only in military-oriented homeland and fiefdom provinces, which will probably not be that many. I think I'd like the Cult's presence to be more... felt.
    Your mod, your choice.

    I guess it depends how you view cult. I imagined it sort of state religion of Adunabar, a state completely binded with the cult (thus full cultic roster), which would then agressively expands it's influence through ME. I mostly saw cultist as a flavor for other factions (thus only elites for them) Something like SS type of unites - regime guards separate from regular army. Or knights templars/hospitaliers/teutons - military arm of the cult, not regular troops.

    If you see cult as a means to itself, and Adunabar just a cult proxy to world domination, then full cultic rosters for everyone are reasonable.

    I meant adding cultic elites on top of regular factional elites. Or maybe some upper tier cultists, with elites being reserved for Adunabar.

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