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Thread: DoM Gameplay Mechanics and Features Overview (upd: 24/12/2013)

  1. #101
    Ryoga84's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    No, I meant, if non-mannish faction decides to keep the non-mannish inhabitants, and manage to stabilize it (bring order, and maybe earn trust of the people) wouldn’t they defend their homes from invasion from the third side? Now, it seems that they would stand idle, and watch their overlords defend their territory (they are unrecruitable by other faction). Thus came my impracticable idea about home guard units (non-manish). I’m explaining what I originally meant. It is still impossible...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    That would mean having Hobbits recruitable by, say, Dwarves or Elves. What if Dwarves have occupied and pacified the Shire, but there are still Hobbits in Westmarch or Buckland? Would the Shire Hobbits fight for Dwarves while they are still at war with their kin? Doubt it.
    (sorry for the poor English)


    After reading this
    Fiefs

    Each region may be organised into one or more fiefs (eg Gondor has the fiefs of Pelennor, Lebennin, Lamedon, Belfalas, etc), each fief including one or more provinces. There is a lordship title for each province and for each fief, with appropriate benefits. Lords that stay in their fiefs will receive extra benefits.
    I got a suggestion.
    Let's say, there is a Fief of the Shire (Hobbiton, Westmarch, Buckland, others?).

    When Dwarves (or Elves) occupy a Shire province they can build a "protectorship" building.
    The protectorship building essentially
    -drain some money from the province taxes
    -make impossible to build faction military buildings (and "mannishing" the province)
    -raise a little the province's order ("we are giving you a self-government, so stay put!")
    If the Dwarves take all the Shire they got the Fief of the Shire.
    Then all the Shire "protectoriship" building can produce some low-level troops (alike the Cult reform).

    I don't really know much of modding, thus maybe the concept isn't applicable.

    I can add some more:
    -The leader of the Shire got the Fiefdom of Shire as background, even if he don't own all the Shire, maybe locked on him per script (is possible?). This way you need to destroy the faction before earning the title.
    Same for Elves and Dwarves (there is only 1 faction each?).
    If Elves are 2 o 3 factions there is a possibility of "Elves killing Elves", so maybe the "Fiefdom of the Galadhrim", "Fiefdom of Mirkwood" and "Fiefdom of the Gray Havens" can be useful. If there is only 1 faction of Elves, than "Fiefdom of the Eldar Lands".
    And Dwarves got the "Fiefdom of Erebor".
    As a sidenote the Dwarves concept can be expanded. They always dreamed of revive their lost kingdoms... so, what if they can "clean" the Gray Mountains, Blue Mountains and Moria?
    (I'm not saying they become right away proper "homeland", but with time and a gargantuan population investiment (not easy for Dwarves) )

    -The "protectorship" building can be upgraded, improving the province order and the troop raised. For example, at an Elf level 1 protectorship you got Elf Hunters (no armor, knives and short bows), at level 2 no more Elf Hunters and Elf Militia (armor and sword) and Elf Archer Militia (armor and bows), at level 3 something even better (BUT definitely not good like a proper Elf troop).
    The protectorship is, of course, more expensive than scrapping the local population, and is only a "civilized" way of dealing with other races (meaning the AI will be not prone to make protectorships).

    -Maybe the production of local troop can be enabled (per script or whatever) only if all the provinces of the fiefdom are "protectorship"-ped


    just my 2 cents

  2. #102
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    If the 'protector' scheme was used, it can only work for non-mannish factions and only for one of them (game limitations), so the obvious choice is Elves or Dwarves becoming protectors of the Hobbits. However, that can lead to weird situations, like Elves and Dwarves fighting and Hobbits, being part of, say, Dwarves also fighting against Elves...

  3. #103
    Ryoga84's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    If the 'protector' scheme was used, it can only work for non-mannish factions and only for one of them (game limitations), so the obvious choice is Elves or Dwarves becoming protectors of the Hobbits. However, that can lead to weird situations, like Elves and Dwarves fighting and Hobbits, being part of, say, Dwarves also fighting against Elves...
    Uff, damn game limitations

  4. #104
    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    I didn’t pest you for some time (, well few days at least ) so... I am curious about one thing. Did non-human factions already in start have all territory that their race occupies? They can’t expand or colonise new territory with their people, right? It is perfectly sensible for Elves because of their extremely dwindling size and new strong reliance on humans. Likewise for Hobbits because of their more or less pacifistic and non-migratory lifestyle. However, Dwarves to me look like somewhat different. They still look to me capable to colonise some of the settlements, and they seem to have good motivation too. At the start of the mod Gundabad is a rebel settlement, right? Quite a good motivation for the Dwarves to capture it, I think. I guess that is populated by the Orcs at the start of the campaign, but it looks like a sacrilege for Dwarves if they would populate it with men. (I assume I don’t have to explain why...) Also, there could be other mountainous regions (you said that there would be some provincies/permanent forts on mountains) that dwarves could reclaim for themselves ( - meaning no human repopulating). I don’t have in mind unreasonable expansion on all regions, just some specific mountainous regions. I don’t have in mind extreme population boom too; you could limit their new cities population growth.





  5. #105
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Dwarves do not start with all the 'Dwarven Lands' under their control. Gundabad is not a settlement though.

  6. #106
    Blatta Optima Maxima's Avatar Definitely banned
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Now that I look at it, Gundabad seems to be a very Middle Eastern (Iranic) name. Gund-ābād, abode of the army.


    ETA: I wonder if it's intentional, or just a coincidence. We must remember that that's where the Orcs of the Misty Mountains gathered their armies.
    Last edited by Blatta Optima Maxima; May 17, 2012 at 12:19 PM.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Gundabad probably is a Khuzdul name.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


  8. #108
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Yes, I know, I just told you what it sounds like to me.

  9. #109
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    'Gundu' means underground hall/cave/excavation in Khuzdul, so I don't think Gundabad is supposed to mean 'abode of the army', no. Probably an altered version of the original dwarven name.

  10. #110
    Jagmodo's Avatar Hastatus
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    You are completely right (in fact I wanted to say the same thing, but you were faster). However, Tolkien didn’t invented he’s languages out of nothing, but pick influences from other languages (as you certainly know). So, Blatta Optima Maxima could be right in some way, but I would aim more north (Scandinavia?)...

    Gundabad will be wonder, then, right?





  11. #111
    athanaric's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatta Optima Maxima View Post
    Now that I look at it, Gundabad seems to be a very Middle Eastern (Iranic) name. Gund-ābād, abode of the army.
    Hah, someone else noticed that, too.

    IMO it's a sub-conscious wording though, if at all. We have to remember that Tolkien grew up in an Empire which had place names like Allahabad. As an educated man, he undoubtedly has encountered these.
    Last edited by athanaric; May 17, 2012 at 05:28 PM.

  12. #112
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagmodo View Post
    You are completely right (in fact I wanted to say the same thing, but you were faster). However, Tolkien didn’t invented he’s languages out of nothing, but pick influences from other languages (as you certainly know). So, Blatta Optima Maxima could be right in some way, but I would aim more north (Scandinavia?)...

    Gundabad will be wonder, then, right?
    Khuzdul is based on the Semetic languages actually.


    Nope, Gundabad is not a wonder, it's a permanent fort.

  13. #113
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Khuzdul is based on the Semetic languages actually.
    It is. Unfortunately, Gund Ābād has nothing to do with semitic languages.

  14. #114
    Aradan's Avatar Flame Imperishable
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Random mechanics update, since the thread has been silent for a while, and we might give the impression we are not working on the mod 24/7:


    One of the characteristics of RTW's AI is that -unless financially constrained- it tends to recruit units whenever it is able to do so. Recruiting however drains population, which is required for settlement upgrades, that are vital for the development and survival of a faction. The AI fails to manage this properly, so it usually recruits its settlements dry and is left with tiny towns that it cannot upgrade and develop. This is a major problem and it is especially accentuated in small settlements, where the only available units are cheap (and thus affordable), large-sized militias/levies, that deplete the settlement's population much faster than expensive, small-sized elites deplete that of larger and more-developed settlements.

    Our ridiculously ingenious and unique solution to this problem was to simply get rid of the different settlement sizes in DoM. All settlements* start as large cities (called "settlements" now) or huge cities ("cities of renown"), which means all their upgrades are theoretically available, even if they stay at 400 population for ever. A settlement's size however functioned as a regulator for its allowed development, and this was something we wanted to keep, so we have added a new, indestructible building that simulates the province's overall degree of development. Its levels range from "undeveloped" (equivalent of vanilla's villages) to "major" (equivalent of vanilla's large cities) and each one unlocks the respective levels of other buildings (eg "major province" is required for tier-4 market). Cities of Renown get an extra level, which allows some special buildings. Therefore a settlement in Rhun can start as very populous, but at the same time completely undeveloped, while settlements in Gondor can start with small populations, but a high development level.

    The main advantage of this change is, as explained, that the AI can now recruit to its heart's content without its settlements stagnating as undeveloped small towns, which results in a more competent AI during the mid/late game. Disassociating population from settlement upgrades also allows us to tailor pop-growth to our needs: we can set settlements to stop growing after, eg, 3000 population, without worrying that they'll never be able to have tier-3/4 buildings, which makes balancing easier. Of course population is still a very important factor in the game, as it heavily affects tax and trade income, apart from determining the recruitment pool. An additional aesthetic advantage of the new system is that without settlement upgrades the settlement models on the map stay the same throughout the campaign. No more haradrian-looking settlements in Eriador or dunedanic-looking settlements in Rhun, which we consider a good thing, as it preserves the overall feel of the map. An extra extra advantage is that we now need only one settlement plan per culture (barring forts and unique settlements), which increases the chance of not driving our settlement-creation specialist insane until the mod is done.





    *An exception are Hobbit settlements, which start as 'cities'. In order to do anything with them, the faction that occupies them first needs to gather enough Men in the province (ie increase the population to 12K) and then upgrade them to large-cities (ie, disperse the gathered population across the province). Then, normal development can ensue.
    Last edited by Aradan; June 07, 2013 at 06:00 AM.

  15. #115
    Lortano's Avatar Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Thank the gods! No more capturing stupid small towns with about 5 people living in them that I spend the rest of the game trying to upgrade!
    Sauron's Miseries: My tale of heroism, glory and of utter failures that ruin the Dark Lord's plans:http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=542268
    The Hobbit: An Unexpected Fail: A story of true friendship, a quest to destroy a dragon, and references all around! http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=584031
    And see where it all began in: Three Jewels, One Valar. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=555203

    My Youtube, where you can see my Let's Plays! http://www.youtube.com/user/LortanoTheDuke?feature=mhee

  16. #116
    Basileos Predator's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Nice news indeed.This feature will defenetly improve the game's balance and alows for a better gameplay experience.Great job !

  17. #117
    Thangaror's Avatar Princeps
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    Ha, that solution is so incredibly simple! Really ingenious!
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

    Middle-earth: Total War - Hérë Pelarcíryarwa - WIP Second Age mod


  18. #118
    Stark1's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    I read first post with amazement until I scrolled down and saw I already commented on it and it's one year old. Then I read new post and was amazed again.

    Can't wait to play it

  19. #119
    intel's Avatar Equites Cohortales
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    That solution is so simple and elegant... And it isn't obvious at the same time. Is there any limit to the brilliance of Aradan and his fellow, experienced modders?

  20. #120
    Stark1's Avatar Cornicularius
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    Default Re: The Official WIP Features Thread

    You should probably put this in first post if you can, so that newcomers can read it.

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