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Thread: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

  1. #1
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Yea. I basically wrote the whole summary in my thread title so there you go.

    This is really my first impressions...

    The choose campaign graphics are good and functional, the new map to choose Factions was a nice change. I decided to try Aizu I think they`re called for the Pro-Shogun lobby and chose Legendary, no map, restricted camera, etc, etc, blah. All the options are still there.

    After getting beaten 3 times as Aizu real quick I decided to make life easier and chose Satsuma, the old position of Shimazu.

    Campaign map.

    The expanded map and somewhat muted graphics are very nice. I liked the different Japanese Agents, but the Foreign agents are strange. I had a British guy who most of the time didn`t sound British or rather he sounded wierdly over-the-top British, he basically sounds like an idiot. I also had an American agent (with Aizu) and he just didn`t sound real American to me. The British guy also walks along the campaign map like a comic character- He looks plain stupid. Can`t understand why CA have portrayed Foreigners like this. Is it a japanese view thing?

    Some of their abilties I found a little strange. I guess I could think of ways how he holds up an army, and challenges someone so he can kill them but how does the British guy manage to infiltrate and sabotage important Japanese holdings? Wouldn`t he be instantly suspect, being the wierdo foreigner? Also the agents have very simple trait improvements from what I saw.

    The tech trees are quite good, although not as complex as I`d hope. But they all seem quite important.

    The UI is nice, but the pictures of Generals and wives, sons and daughters are terribly dour. Now I understand that these are probably from authentic photos of the time, but surely we can get something a tad more lively. It gives a somewhat wrong impression of Japanese people in my view. The reason people looked so terrible in those old photos was because they had to sit absolutely still for ages for one pic to take! Women (except the Geisha), look particularly bad. Also there isn`t enough variety, after I lost one General, the next guy looked exactly the same!

    Ok, that`s the aesthetics on the Campaign map...

    Diplomacy:

    I like the new diplomacy speech which is somewhat more excitable now, but it works. When a guy`s angry, he sounds angry (and also says some angry stuff) , when he sees you as a friend he really welcomes you for tea. I like it.

    I like the fact that there are two groups fighting for Imperial or Shogun rule. One for the old ways and another for the new. It isn`t as simple as it sounds. Expect to get on much better in Diplomacy with guys who agree with your choice (Imperial or Shogun).

    Alliances are a bit haphazard at the moment, with both sides being iffy at the moment and there`s a lot of distrust, but Chosu has turned into a reliable ally. I haven`t come to the Divide yet so no one is really polarised. But I do like the way it`s going - adds a bit of edgeiness to things. It`s not done anything wrong yet.

    The Battles...

    Well I noticed straight away one major change. Troops walk much slower now, in fact, I would say as slow as real life which was a bit of a shock for me to see. It also seems that the battlefields are bigger, so it can actually take a while for troops to meet. I think this is very realistic and very great. Of course there`s a good reason for this...

    Artillery.

    It gives you a realistic chance to target and strike the enemy, especially with Naval artillery.

    The standard artillery so far is very much like in Empire, except now you can actually run out of ammo. I must say the noise of the guns and explosions, near or distant are very good and replicate that scary `thoom` of battle. So as the enemy slowly approaches ahead of you, you let rip with your ordnance. You DO get immersed.

    Naval bombardment is available if you have a ship close to shore and they can easily turn the tide of battle if used smartly. Have them near any coast line supporting your armies. You have a few minutes to wait for the available Naval arty, then you choose an aimed bombardment or spread. Once you choose you have a certain amount of time before the shells rain down so you must choose just right where you want them to land, not easy if the enemy is moving to you. On top of that, a location target flare is fired which warns the AI, so it`ll start avoiding (not sure how authentic this is).

    However, most basic artillery can`t move too well, so when I was being hit by enemy arty on attack I directed the naval artillery on that- It silenced the enemy guns pretty fast. That was really very nice

    Another trick with Naval arty is not to use it too soon. Wait until you`re almost at them and the AI starts firing, then call down Naval Arty. The enemy AI is then caught between staying where it is or moving, which will blow its firing line and you get shots as it. It can be a bit close to your men, but devastated the enemy.

    In fact, the battles are very enjoyable now. Marching against enemy artillery as they pound my poor soldiers, , then facing them with a constant line of rifle fire was amazing. In one big battle the field was a cloud of white smoke! I dunno if darthmod which I deactivated was causing this extra white smoke or if it was part of the game, but it looked incredible. I actually feel a bit sorry for the men (especially if mine). And the AI actually kept its lines for the battle too. The sounds and gunshots were also authentic and sounded excellent. When the battles get big they are something else, my hat`s off to CA on this. This was what Empire was meant to be. We have it now in Fall Of The Samurai.

    But... there have been times when the BAI has had problems with its lines, constantly moving them until it bumps into a melee with your firing troops. A problem all the way from Empire. Needs fixing, but livable.

    Siege battles are actually enjoyable because I just pound the enemy with guns then walk through the gates to finish off the rest of them. The trapped AI General keeps moving with or without the arty fire, which is good. He doesn`t react instantly at a button press, again good. However, BAI men still climb the walls, which seems even more ludicrous in this more modern period with men in modern dress and artillery, but what else can I say?

    Ship battles.

    I don`t know what it is, but big guns and ships really kicks things off. I like old ancient stuff, but I also like big bangy stuff if done right and CA does this quite right! There is a certain amount of realism too in how they move. I like the fact your ship can explode if you push the engines too far! It would be nice if there was a chance the engine would just stop working too leaving it floating in the water. Good stuff. Also, I get the impression that the person who made these ship models really enjoyed doing it. There`s a bit of love in them thar ships.

    The ship battlemap is also larger here, I think, and the firing starts pretty early on as you manoeuver. The enemy ship correctly knows to have its broadside facing you as you approach so it gets first dibs on you and I had to basically zig-zag my way to the enemy. I lost two battles though due to my main ship exploding incredibly easily, which was shocking. My only gripes are the speeds and perhaps a little more resilience to the ships, even when attacked by explosive shells, but speed reduction mostly. Battles are over so quickly before you can even get settled in.

    1st person mode:
    Hmm. It is not 1st person, even though the game calls it that. It`s a close 3rd person view. You don`t feel like you`re a guy behind a gun. You feel like you float above and behind it, like an ethereal spirit. I actually found it annoying, swinging about with the crosshair. I really had hoped you would be placed as one of the men and actually aim and fire from his position. Unfortunately, I found it the same with the land cannons too. I guess the gatling does this also...

    In fact after trying the annoying 3rd person view on the ship ship, I just hit Insert instead (which is true 1st person) and just wandered the decks as a crewman. That was more immersive, especially when the guy I was seeing through the eyes of walked past the engine room and you could hear the `chug-chug-chug` of th engine. Roll the mouse wheel until you get to a cannon crew and you`ll get perfect 1st person shooting too. Very nice.

    No, I shant be using CA`s version of 1st person which is actually arcady 3rd. Sorry. But I will use Insert.

    Graphics:
    Graphics are all very good imho. The blood effect is strange. I`m considering whether to totally turn it off. It`s way over the top for FOTS and just doesn`t fit when men are shot, but quite muted on the ground. There really should be a minimum, medium and max blood setting.

    Sounds are excellent, as I`ve said. It`s nice hearing the words of your soldiers and most of the time they seem to know what`s happening. They`ll call `enemy approaching` and `pull back` when you pull back cavalry, plus lots of other waffle. However, the American Lieutenant who advises (is he even American?) is grating and doesn`t say anything useful to be honest, I`d prefer the voice of the Japanese guy in the original Shogun 2 and his `Awwfrull Dispraayy!`.

    Oh yes, and the music soundtrack is brilliant. Exciting, dramatic, thought provoking stuff with a little `story` behind it.

    This is a very good expansion on 1st impression and it is really is sad, almost brings tears to my eyes, because it shows what Empire was supposed to be and should have been.

  2. #2
    Arksa's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Pretty much like my thoughts, I'm really loving FOTS.

    Sometimes I feel like the Emperor/Shogun allegiance makes the diplomacy a bit simple at times. Making friends is easy when they are the same allegiance and they are always hostile when they're not same allegiance.

  3. #3
    Sir Furlong's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    A nice summation. I love all that they're done with FOTS for the most part, and I look forward to them building on this!

  4. #4
    M2TWRocks's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    I agree. But after reading your review, I realized that I completely forgot about first person view as I haven't even tried it yet. Lol.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    great review.

  6. #6
    emptw1's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Very good review, and, about your DarthMod smoke point, i don't think DM adds that much smoke effects. I have been in both Vanilla and DM battles, abd in both, i see large clouds of white smoke drifting in the wind accross the field from where a large gunfight took place. It's awesome.

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    I thought that you'll wait for sale :p

  8. #8
    legate's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    My Parrott guns dont give off smoke when fired


  9. #9
    emptw1's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    I have found artillery doesn't give off huge amounts of smoke, but a couple of Infantry units firing does.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    I personally prefer the less rigid diplomacy featured in the original Shogun 2 campaign. Otherwise I really enjoy Fall of the Samurai.

  11. #11
    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Thanks, fellas.
    I don`t often say this, but I actually look forward to running the game just to run another session. I just love the land battles with the artillery and the shoot outs of thousands of men. I particularly enjoy marching my men forward through an enemy artillery barrage- nail biting stuff.

    I gotta be careful so it don`t affect my work!

    Seeing the battlefield covered in smoke by battle`s end was quite impressive and realistic from accounts I read about. The fact that CA actually kept to a lot of basic realism is really great, ie artillery with ammo limits, delays in bombardments, slow units. I will find a Mod to slow ships down. I don`t mind the arcady bits as long as I`m not forced to use them.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by legate View Post
    My Parrott guns dont give off smoke when fired
    Yeah I'm pretty sure Parrott rifles have some particle issues. It'll probably get patched.

    Nice review! I wasn't enthralled so much with first person view, but I did use it once to override the "line of sight blocked" thing and took out a bunch of enemies so it's nice to have I suppose.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  13. #13

    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Humble, youve been awesome! I actually re-installed Shogun 2 yesterday after shelving it a little after the RotS release. I must say that even the base Shogun 2 is much more enjoyable now, and made me consider Rise of the Samurai, and your review makes me feel a little safer in knowing I won't just put it away after a days use. Thanks again!
    The Canadian Corps: Mount Sorrel, 2nd Ypres, Vimy, Arleux, Hill 70, Passchendaele, Amiens, Hindenburg Line, Canal du Nord, Mons.

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    The Dutch Devil's Avatar Krakiszki the Hunter
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Thread moved to player reviews, feel free to PM if you have any questions.

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    Humble Warrior's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    I like to give CA credit when it`s due. I am a fair man, maybe they understand that.

    Just had a bridge battle on defence. The BAI was attacking. I was rushing my men to cover the bridge, but his 2nd General cavalry was going to get there first. So I fired on the cavalry with my land artillery which, to my surprise, destroyed the bridge killing the General who had just stepped on it!

    So the main General had to change plan and attempt to cross by the nearby shallow river crossing which gave me time to defend that. Very nice.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    To be honest I found your review quite helpful in making my mind about buying this one - sounds fun enough, I guess, so I just might go and do that in the future (but not before i'm finally done with Skyrim, and this might take a while)
    I wasn't very much thrilled about this expansion, since it sounds a lot like Napoleon in terms of gameplay, but taking place in Japan. I was afraid that the game will be assymetric too, with one side technologically advanced, and with the other attacking only with swords and arrows- as I'm not an expert in this period of history, with "The Last Samurai" being only source of information about that conflict - and frankly I'm still not sure how it works in game... 1st person shooting feature did not sound too encouraging either, but that's something you don't have to use if you're not into this kind of thing, i guess.
    I'm still not 100% sure if this is something I'll be enyoing as much as the previous titles (even Empire, being flaved as it is), but from what you wrote I see there are couple of improvements and features worth checking out, and since I know you as rather critical towards TW games, it makes this review even more valuable to me.

    Under the Patronage of: Ishan

  17. #17

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    Nah, humble warrior just ignore an interesting part: 1st person view.

    It really really enjoyable to use few gating guns to defend a hill or a castle from a swarm of Yari kachi. It makes you feel like an imperial general in the last samurai movie who fight against the army of Tom Cruise. However, in this case the odd againsts you !!!

  18. #18
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Warrior View Post
    The British guy also walks along the campaign map like a comic character- He looks plain stupid.
    To be fair, he did come from the Ministry of Silly Walks. Quite the prestigious school, if I do say-so myself.

    Your review was exemplary, Humble. Conveys my exact thoughts on the game, what could have been, and what should have been. It gives me immense optimism for the future of Total War, I can tell you that much. If CA keeps up the good work; nay, pushes BEYOND this level of quality workmanship, we may have the epitome of war-time games everywhere.

    Four thumbs up (out of five) and a ninja for this review


  19. #19
    ♘Top Hat Zebra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by BullGod View Post
    To be honest I found your review quite helpful in making my mind about buying this one - sounds fun enough, I guess, so I just might go and do that in the future (but not before i'm finally done with Skyrim, and this might take a while)
    I wasn't very much thrilled about this expansion, since it sounds a lot like Napoleon in terms of gameplay, but taking place in Japan. I was afraid that the game will be assymetric too, with one side technologically advanced, and with the other attacking only with swords and arrows- as I'm not an expert in this period of history, with "The Last Samurai" being only source of information about that conflict - and frankly I'm still not sure how it works in game... 1st person shooting feature did not sound too encouraging either, but that's something you don't have to use if you're not into this kind of thing, i guess.
    I'm still not 100% sure if this is something I'll be enyoing as much as the previous titles (even Empire, being flaved as it is), but from what you wrote I see there are couple of improvements and features worth checking out, and since I know you as rather critical towards TW games, it makes this review even more valuable to me.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Yes, the future looks bright for TW, now. If they can pull off a large, 19th century Total War, I have the feeling it would be the best yet.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Fall Of The Samurai- What Empire was supposed to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by BullGod View Post
    To be honest I found your review quite helpful in making my mind about buying this one - sounds fun enough, I guess, so I just might go and do that in the future (but not before i'm finally done with Skyrim, and this might take a while)
    I wasn't very much thrilled about this expansion, since it sounds a lot like Napoleon in terms of gameplay, but taking place in Japan. I was afraid that the game will be assymetric too, with one side technologically advanced, and with the other attacking only with swords and arrows- as I'm not an expert in this period of history, with "The Last Samurai" being only source of information about that conflict - and frankly I'm still not sure how it works in game... 1st person shooting feature did not sound too encouraging either, but that's something you don't have to use if you're not into this kind of thing, i guess.
    I'm still not 100% sure if this is something I'll be enyoing as much as the previous titles (even Empire, being flaved as it is), but from what you wrote I see there are couple of improvements and features worth checking out, and since I know you as rather critical towards TW games, it makes this review even more valuable to me.
    Both sides have the opportunity to modernize, so it's not really modern vs. traditional though there is unrest the more you modernize. Smaller clans have a harder time modernizing so they will feature more traditional troops.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

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