Some PI Modding from my side

[KEA]

This is realy an amazing mod! I felt free to implement some changes myself. May be you would like them too:

General Changes:

export_descr_buildings.txt

I have adjusted built-times and -costs. This means they now go up a bit more straight foreward from 2/800 in Village level buildings, to 4/2000 for town-level, 8/8000 etc to 64/57600 on huge_city levels. That way it is a easyer to build on the lower leves but building anything larger becomes a realy longterm work.

I have massivly changed recruitment. Barracks now play a lesser role because all militia-type units are available from the core buildings while only professionals require barracks (more on that later). This also follows that barracks have different meanings for different people. Such as, they are pointless (and indeed unbuildable) for the Romans but very important for the Carthagians. Additionally I have reduced replenish and maximum numbers but made units avialable earlyer in return.

export_descr_units

General changes to units affect stats. In general I have raised defence values, sometimes reduced attack, adjusted moral etc. In general I have been aiming on making combat last a bit longer.

More importantly was the distinction I had made between militias and professionals. This means there are units that are meant to be drafted citizens, people that usually don't soldier but can be called to arms, then even providing their own kit. Raising an army like that is rather cheap, but has it downsides because the same people would otherwise keep your economy running.

Not surprisingly that waging war with these men can quickly drain your treasury. Militia units all have the free upkeep ability. They also cost as much for recruitment as for a single turn of upkeep. This is not meant to represent a true high salery they get (in most occasions they in fact would have gotten nothing), but would be the money you are losing because these men are not on their (civilian) jobs.

Professional units on the other hand are men whos every day duty would be to fight. As that they don't have the free upkeep tag but their upkeep is seriously lower because this would indeed only represent money you have to provide for upkeep and not an additional "economical penalty". Recruitment costs for these units but is seriously higher.

For example a unit of Equites Romani costs 720 both for recruitment and upkeep. It is Roman citizen cavalry composed of the upper ends of Rome's commercial society. This unit is free_upkeep, so as long as you don't move it away from the city it doesn't cost you thing. A unit of, nearly identical, Equites Sabini costs 1530 recruitment but 153 upkeep. It is professional cavalry (or members of an otherwise unproductive warrior class) from the Latin mountains.

"Professional" and "militia" also affect stats up to some degree.

Roman Changes

Additionally I have made a couple of changes to the Romans.

Family Tree

The Romans now do use a family tree. I don't know where the idea came up that family ties didn't play a role in Roman republican politics. And while I was at it I also fixed the Roman names.

Offices

Yes, you certainly know the drill: the Romans have a couple of offices that the family members can acquire a certain order. I have implemented:

Vigintisexvir

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This man is a Vigintisexvir, one of the lesser magistrates of the Republic. The offces included that of the curator viarum, responsible for the roads, the trumvir capitalis, assistants of the praetors, and others.Young Roman patricians often acquired these offices as a preparation for their political career.

- At least 18 years
- Needs to be governor and have people at "green face"
- Promted by father being at least Praetor
- held by suitors and adoptees over 27 years

Tribunus Militaris

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This man has been elected a military tribune. The military tribunes were young nobles with some military experience elected by the people. Each Legion had six military tribunes who rotated in high command in bi-monthly turns. Besides that the tribunes were responsible for organizing recruitment, keeping the books and other staff duties.\n\n For gameplay purpose this office is held for five years (20 turns).

- At least 21 years
- Can be acquired in enemy lands, time with army or commanding battles
- Can be appointed by father being Consul
- held Level suitors and adoptees over 30 years and by all Lesser Generals offered for adoption

Quaestor

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This man is a Quaestor, the lowest office of the cursus honorum. In the early days of the Republic there only had been two 'quaestores consulis'. Later two more 'quaestores urbani' were added. The number of quaestors then rose steadily throughout the centuries with the expansion of Rome and the growing ammount of governmental duties, up to 40 quaestors under Caesar. Quaestors usually were assistants to higher ranking magistrates (praetors and consuls) in the provinces and on campaign, or occupied with lesser legal and administrative duties inside Rome.

- Held for one year from winter to winter
- Has been Military Tribune earliest (=27)
- Otherwise has to be at least 30 years
- Has to (have) be(en) Vigintisexvir
- Needs good Piety
- Bonus for Senators
- Bonus for high Loyalty
- Bonus for sons of Consuls
- held by suitors and adoptees over 32 years

Aedilis

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This man has been elected an Aedile. Originally there had been two plebeian aediles as assistants of the tribunes of the people. Later two 'aediles curules' were added. Aediles were respondible for a couple of administrative duties such as taking care for the temples and other public buildings, supervising the markets or taking care of the distribution of grain to the poor. Even more important was their task to organize the games - a good opportunity to make oneself known to the voters for the coming election as praetor; but also an excellent way to ruin oneself. The term of the Aediles was one year.

- Held for one year from winter to winter
- Has been Quaestor & is Senator
- Needs good Piety & Loyalty
- Bonus for sons of Consuls
- held by suitors and adoptees over 37 years

Praetor (Urbanus, Peregrinus, Sicilia, Sardinia, Gallia Cisalpina, Africa)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Praetors work a bit different than the former offices: The character needs to have this trait but you also need to give him the office by granting him the respective ancillary. That way there would always be only one in the respective office.

- The Praetor Urbanus is available as long as you hold the city of Rome
- The Praetor Peregrinus can be acquired in a city with less than 50% Roman culture
- The provincial praetors become available as soon as you hold the respective provinces
The imperium of a praetor is always limited to his province (the city of Rome for the Praetor Urbanus, the rest of Italy for the Praetor Peregrinus)

Consul (2x)

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Similar to the praetors, consuls require to have the respective trait and hold one of the two consul ancillaries. Consuls also need to have been praetors before. Their imperium is without limits.

Censor

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This man has been elected Censor. Despite not holding imperium, a censor is considered to be higher ranking than a consul. His primary duty is to hold a proper census of the Roman citizens throughout the lands of the Republic. Taxing Romans into their proper class also includs the right to appoint new senators - or to expell senators for unworthy conduct of life. The term of a censor lasts for five years and is called a lustrum.

- Has been Consul
- held for five years
- minimum 50 years
- held by suitors and adoptees over 50 years

Dictator & Magister Equitum

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This are not regular offices of the cursus honorum, but the faction leader can become dictator in certain situations. The faction heir will then be the master of horse.

Senator

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- At least 30 years
- Awarded to sons of Senators 50%
- Awarded to FL and FH 100%
- Awarded to Quaestors with high Loyalty 25%
- held by suitors and adoptees over 30 years

Divide et Impera!

I have implemented five forms of government that you can impose over your subjects. These are:

Scoii: A Roman allied state. This one can be build everywhere Roman culture is less than 50%. It is good for recruitment of locals, but bad for economy and can cause trouble. I have changed a couple of recruitment properties (that's the reason why models_db and UI is part of this download even though I had not changed any units) so that the Romans now can recruit local units (but only under this goverment). The ammount and kind of local units available is depending on the local cultures/religions.

Praefectura: A pretty generic form of government where a Roman governor was appointed to squeeze the province dry. It has no futher requirements and can be set up everywhere. It has some boni in taxes but the only units that are available here are the generic "Italici"

Colonia Latina: This can be implemented wherever Roman culture is less than 50%. It converts the province into a Latin one. Happiness and taxes are reduced in return you can recruit Roman units, depending on the ammount of conversion already done.

Municipium: A Latin town with lesser rights. The province needs to have at least 30% Roman culture and the city needs to have at least the level large_town. This government doesn't have any boni or penalties but allows to recruit Roman units.

Civitas: The province need to be at least 50% Roman and the settlement at least a city. This form of government allows to recruit Roman units and gives a bonus in population growth and happiness. Taxing is a bit reduced though.

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Installation: Back up you files and unzipp in your PI folder.

[Skyn0s]

Hi KEA,

Reaction to your thread :

I've read it, and some changes are interesting, but stay inform that the version of Paeninsula Italica II still in progress, and the beta can be edited by team members or personnal use.
So feel free to join the team if you want to work on it, and help us to get ahead with the mod.

It would be nice to have your comment on project we have, and your ideas, as we can see that you have some .
Maybe you have seen that ancillaries and some things you proposed are in project.

- The family trees for the roman was deleted, in purpose to represent the Republican system of government of the S.P.Q.R .
- The "Professional / Militia" seems particularly interesting.

I haven't test you work yet.
Probably your work will be not compatible with next version, without implementing it in the final version.

Thank you for your participation.

Skyn0s

[KEA]

I've read it, and some changes are interesting, but stay inform that the version of Paeninsula Italica II still in progress, and the beta can be edited by team members or personnal use.

Yes, I see. This indeed was made for my personal use after having read that this project is somewhat dead or on hold (obviously my mini-mod wasn't completed in one Sunday afternoon, so the infos were somewhat outdated).

So feel free to join the team if you want to work on it, and help us to get ahead with the mod.

Yes, why not. I can't promise you too much in terms of time. I can do most things dealing with EDCT, EDB, and EDA, as well as a bit of scripting too (and even had skinned a shield or two).

The family trees for the roman was deleted, in purpose to represent the Republican system of government of the S.P.Q.R .

Yes, that's something I don't agree with.

I haven't test you work yet.

I am still testing it myself right now. So far everything seems to be working as intended. Some stats but a new review.

[alhoon]

While I also liked some of these changes, I think Signifier One should be the one to decide on drastic changes on militia/professionals.
While I agree with it, the way I read it in history is that... there were not real professionals back then. Every patrician was supposed to serve like 10 years in the army to go for higher offices. Greek cities also had males training for a few weeks each year and buying their own equipment.

[SigniferOne]

The Romans now do use a family tree. I don't know where the idea came up that family ties didn't play a role in Roman republican politics.

Of course Romans had family ties. But you need to look at what Med2 engine gives us, not at the myriad historical realities that actual history has had. Med2 gives us the one single faction leader -- he is in non-republican societies the monarch, the king, the ruler. In Roman politics, he might be a Dictator, but that's about it.

Therefore we have not taken the option of the single Roman man as the 'ruler' of Rome, with his own family tree. Instead, the distinction betewen the faction ruler an faction heir has been erased, and both function as semi-anonymous Roman Consuls.

I'll comment on the rest as time will permit.

[KEA]

While I also liked some of these changes, I think Signifier One should be the one to decide on drastic changes on militia/professionals. While I agree with it, the way I read it in history is that... there were not real professionals back then. Every patrician was supposed to serve like 10 years in the army to go for higher offices. Greek cities also had males training for a few weeks each year and buying their own equipment.

The difference I would be thinking of would be those people who primary live of soldiering, be at as a member of a standing army, a mercenary, or a member of some kind of warrrior class or warrior nobility, and those that would have been civilians first of all.

The idea is to implement some kind of "socio-economical penalty" when fighting your wars using your civilians - of course with some factions you don't have a choice.

Of course Romans had family ties. But you need to look at what Med2 engine gives us, not at the myriad historical realities that actual history has had. Med2 gives us the one single faction leader -- he is in non-republican societies the monarch, the king, the ruler. In Roman politics, he might be a Dictator, but that's about it.

Therefore we have not taken the option of the single Roman man as the 'ruler' of Rome, with his own family tree. Instead, the distinction betewen the faction ruler an faction heir has been erased, and both function as semi-anonymous Roman Consuls.

Removing the family tree doesn't remove the faction leader or faction heir. Both are indeed extremly pointless to have for the Romans. The best thing I could have done was to deny them any special traits while making "consul" a trait/ancillary that everyone can acquire. The only thing that is left is both losing their nomen and cognomen, but that's rather cosmetical. I also use them for a simple way to make occasional dictators.

There are some hardcoded functions for the faction leader, but these can easyly be bypassed. For example I have given each step in the cursus honorum one point in authority, so the Roman faction leader should have the full ten scrolls in a row without much problems.

The question is what you realy gain when not using a family tree? OK, you don't have a leader with sons or sons of a former leader. But you still have a leader anyways. Just think of it when the game proceeds and you have some twenty or thirty male family members of age, all with their own little sub-family. In this case it really wouldn't matter which of them would be "leader" and "heir", as long as those don't get any special traits.

On the other hand you would have a lot of options for roleplaying family connection, but also to use family connections for giving traits. For example, in my mod I have made it more likely for sons of consuls to acquire higher offices. That's a pretty simple way to implement nepotism, family connections, nobility etc. but it wouldn't be possible at all without a family tree.

Using no family tree really only is necessary where a family tree wouldn't make much sense, for example for the Papal States, the Teutonic Order, or in PI may be for the Greek Cities because their family member would all be characters from different cities.

[smoesville]

Just a thought but why not use family tree for each of the big political families in Rome at the start date? Each family (Iuilii, Brutii etc.) could have several family members, there can even be intermarriage between the families using princesses. It would add another level to the Romanoi and their polotics, you still have the possibility of a son following in his fathers footsteps but aswell as that you would likely not get the same family always taking the two consulships etc.

[KEA]

There can only be one family tree per faction

[alhoon]

I think only Sparta had "standing army" in that era. Perhaps Rome too. Not sure.

[KEA]

I think only Sparta had "standing army" in that era. Perhaps Rome too. Not sure.

No, Rome had no standing army at this point of her history.

[Skyn0s]

Depend of what are talking about when you said a "standing army".

In fact, they hadn't a professional army, so concerning Rome they hadn't a "standing army".
But, thanks to their system of recruitment and levying they can have an army on feet extremly quickly. It was their strength against opposants during the IInd century.
This army was trained and composed mostly by veterans or milites who have served at least one time.

But Sparta during the Ancient World, was the only one who choose to reserved its citizen only for war, and the rest of the population "hilotes" to maintain the economic and social way.

[KEA]

Well yes, a "standing army" would usually be a professional army in which the soldiers constantly serve under arms. Such an army would indeed be the Roman army of the post-Marian periode. The Roman army of our timeframe would be the exact opposite of that: completly composed of citizen militia that only were called to arms when needed. This is the same as the military of Greek poleis (including Sparta!) worked.

Mercenaries in larger numbers, as far as I know, became a part of Roman forces during the campaigns in Spain. In Spain, after the 2nd Punic War, also the Roman militia army became more and more used like a standing army by being required to maintain permant garrisons much beyond the usual "campaigning seasons". This was one of the reasons for the Republican military system (and with that the Republic itself) to collapse.