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Thread: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

  1. #21
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Constantius it was not caled pannonia secunda it was called pannonia savia (because of the save river) I noticed this doing research into aetius, who gave away the province in 433 in exchange for mercenaries. Sirmium was the center of pannonia savia. I can't remember explicitly who stated htis but I think it's in the gallic chronicle of 452, not sure though.

  2. #22
    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    pannonia secunda and pannonia savia were 2 different provinces.
    The capital of Savia was Siscia - that of secunda was Sirmium.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Now, because we are speaking of the Germanic people, the Langobards (or better in German Language: 'Langobarden')
    Why should it be more accurate to refer to them in modern High German in an English forum? We also don't call the Etrsucians Etruschi in this forum only because their descendants do speak modern Italian.

  4. #24
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    I tried to give an answer to your question in the previous posts, read them, if you are interested, and read what wrote Pompeius about the names in AoDII.

  5. #25
    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Lombards is an English word and perfectly acceptable in academic circles to refer to the Langobardi the Latin name which is what they shall be called ingame


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  6. #26
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
    pannonia secunda and pannonia savia were 2 different provinces.
    The capital of Savia was Siscia - that of secunda was Sirmium.
    Hmm my maps must be wrong, as i saw it as pannonia as th square block and then savia as the little place between the danube and save rivers, with it's capital at sirmium.

    Also isn't siscia in illyricum?

  7. #27
    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Sirmium is capitol of Pannonia secunda


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  8. #28
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantius View Post
    Lombards is an English word and perfectly acceptable in academic circles to refer to the Langobardi the Latin name which is what they shall be called ingame
    My dear Constantius, probably my bad english was not clear, but I never said that the actual way in which the english speaking people call the Langobards is not correct in english grammar and/or not acceptable in 'academic circles', I asked only to use a better word to call the Langobards, that is Langobards!

    Anyway if Mr.William Dudley Fulke used in his Transaltion of Paul of Winfrid (1907) "History of the Langobards" the word 'Langobards' I do not think that this word can be considered wrong.

    - Or does the today english language consider the work of Fulke outdated? or worse is it wrong?

    - Why if one of the most important english transaltion of the 'Historia Langobardorum' uses the word 'Langobards' I cannot ask to use the same word that Fulke used in 1907, today?

    - What happened between 1907 and today? Did the english language eliminate the use of the word Langobards from the correct range of the english words? (I ask because my language is Italian, and I'm quite satisfied of this, so I do know the problems of the today english!)

    - IMHO calling the Langobards: Lombards, is like calling French, the Franks.....anyway 'De gustibus non est disputandum!'...........

    - Why asking to use a english correct word used by Fulke does create so many complaints?...... I cannot understand, probably is a problem about an outdated word that today the peole refuses to use....or something connected with the english language that I'm not able to understand!....Anyway dear friend uses all the words you like or feel more appropriate to call the Labgbards in your writings, maine was just a request, really nothing else.

    A last word about the unfortunate Winnili: Their name is Langbards, as says Paul the Deacon in his work, the name, translated in Latin is 'Langobardi', what I want to explain is that the word Langobardi is only the Latin translation of the word Langbards, and this is clearly written and described by Paul, if you'll read Paul (in Latin would be better) you'll probably understand!

  9. #29
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes



    Ah i see now, i always thought pannonia was divided into 3 provinces not 4, and that dalmatia was dalamtia and illyria, divided into 2 provinces. Learn something new every day

  10. #30
    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Diocle..Not at all my friend, it is just a choice- you know what just for you I will edit it and put peoples in Latin, including .. Gepids, ok? Will that make you happy? Latin is after all a beautiful language!

    MMFA.. yes you do learn something new even day, that is the, optomistically , the whole point of the essay...I do make mistakes, but I also do thouroghly research the subject first.

    Thankyou both, for the discusions


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  11. #31
    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    From L.L. Langobardus, proper name of a Germanic people who conquered Italy 6c. and settled in the northern region that became known as Lombardy, from P.Gmc. Langgobardoz, often said to mean literally "Long-beards," but perhaps rather from *lang- "tall, long" + the proper name of the people (L. Bardi). Their name in O.E. was Langbeardas (pl.), but also Heašobeardan, from heašo "war."

    In Middle English the word meant "banker, money-changer, pawnbroker" (late 14c.), from O.Fr. Lombart "Lombard," also "money-changer; usurer; coward," from It. Lombardo (from M.L. Lombardus). Lombards in Middle Ages were notable throughout Western Europe as bankers and money-lenders, also pawn-brokers; they established themselves in France from 13c., especially in Montpellier and Cahors, and London's Lombard Street (c.1200) originally was the site of the houses of Lombard bankers. French also gave the word in this sense to Middle Dutch and Low German. Lombardy poplar, originally from Italy but planted in N.Amer. colonies as an ornamental tree, is attested from 1766.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Lombard
    Why a particular form is chosen, is purely a matter of choice, and what was current in literature of the time, these days the word Lombard is used in English academic papers and books...therefore I used it. I hope that satisfies your curiosity. English is a very mixed language, Latin, French, Anglo/Saxon, German etc etc, but I am sure you already know that. ....anyway this is going of course this thread is for the discussion of the fifth, sixth and seventh century Danubian provinces
    Last edited by Constantius; April 14, 2012 at 01:11 AM.


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  12. #32
    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Well said Constantius. There is nothing to add.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constantius View Post
    Why a particular form is chosen, is purely a matter of choice,
    ...and with this sentence we want finish it. We have answered the question somewhere in the first posts of this thread that AoD2 will use latin names for all factions - by the way a decision which was made years ago.

    I feel also a little bit sorry that a well researched thread becomes somewhat filled with posts which are "wide of the mark".
    Thank you
    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; April 14, 2012 at 06:10 AM.

  13. #33
    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    .(09/09/2012) I am afraid I am very busy with RL issues so completing this article might take considerably longer than anticipated. So I have added what I have completed thus far.
    Thank you for your patience and following AoDII your friend and comrade Constantius.


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  14. #34

    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Wow, nice article Constantius!

  15. #35
    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post11989443
    This article can now be found in the Scriptorium


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  16. #36

    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Nice! Especial the info on 840 and the work of Diocle to get thing written and spoken like it was that times.

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